Pyro, HT, can you review the 51D

[Maverick]

I have also noted a lot of wing seperations in the pony recently. It has happned to me as I was turning. I wasn't cranking on the elevators but started to turn to follow a bandit at 300 knots. If I had suddenly yanked back to full deflection of the elevator I would expect some dificulties. Ripping the wings at only 300 by banking is more than a little wierd however. And my stick IS scaled. I don't get full deflection until the very last part of the stick motion.

The pony also seems to suffer from a lack of altitude performance. It seems to be capable only of wallowing over 23k, much less flying BFM. This seems to be very different from the descriptions I have read of the 51's performance at altitude. This was America's premier high alt bird. It should outperform the jug up high, not the other way around IMO.

I know laminar flow has it's disadvantages. But not at speed. It should be stable and provide plenty of lift for BFM even at alt as long as the speed is up above the stall. I have a plane with a laminar flow wing and it's fine until you stall it. The main thing to remember about it is that the wing stops flying rather abruptly rather than gradually as do other wing designs. It lets you know it's starting to quit but it is not as "forgiving" about continuing on if you don't "listen" to it.

I may be wrong, but I think the pony is not performing as it should.  

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No Mercy Asked, None Given, Just pass the ammo

[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 07-30-2000).]

[Kieren]

 

This was America's premier high alt bird. It should outperform the jug up high, not the other way around IMO.

Not true. Both the P-38 and P-47 had better turbo-supercharged engines at high alt. Fact is, the higher the P-47 went, the better it got vs. contemporary fighters.

[Fishu]

While looking into P-51's G models, I recommend checking of F4u's wingtips too..
Quite easily loses wingtips with low speed pulls..

[wolf37]

hello all:

i did not read all the thread, but does anybody else think the spit wings rip off way to easy, i have had wings rip off with just a little turn and woundered what the heck was going on. well maybe it is just me.

wolf37
C.O.
THUNDER BIRDS

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by wolf37:
hello all:

i did not read all the thread, but does anybody else think the spit wings rip off way to easy, i have had wings rip off with just a little turn and woundered what the heck was going on. well maybe it is just me.

wolf37
C.O.
THUNDER BIRDS

I've heard that spitfrie wings should be more prone for damage under high Gs than other fighters...

[Kieren]

The funny thing is, wings almost never pop off my planes.

I did lose the wings off an A5 the other day, but hey, I almost never fly it and I was diving hard. I didn't think much of it.

I have never lost a wing in a Spitfire due to overstress.

Seems odd it happens to many, and not to many at the same time.  

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Kieren:
The funny thing is, wings almost never pop off my planes.

I did lose the wings off an A5 the other day, but hey, I almost never fly it and I was diving hard. I didn't think much of it.

I have never lost a wing in a Spitfire due to overstress.

Seems odd it happens to many, and not to many at the same time.  

I've had no problems in spitfrie or other either, but in F4u-1c I did break both wingtips after I made diving attack on panzers top after 120mph climb and 250mph pull up speed  

[Hangtime]

A lot of the wing rip conditions are surely related to stick spikes and stick scalings.

Once you get familiar with a plane type; you tend to know where it is that you cross that line. One easy way to stay outta trouble is with the black-out feature.. I use it as my 'heads-up' g-meter. Pull to black and the wings are gone.   Even a small stick spike when you are this close to the 'edge' (wherever that is in your plane) and *POP*.

Anyway; what I'm seeing is 'whats diffrent'. I'm losing wings a mite more frequently than before; and I'm not pushing the plane as close to 'the edge' when they come off. Still using the same scaling I've used for 8 months; and it's set up for e-fighting. I get no chatter or spikes in my j-test program; windows setup or in the sim stick setups. I check it often.

Hang

[Chango]

I wonder if everyone knows the exact G figure when there wings rip off or they compress.  I have been flying WB for a few years now and have just began flying in AH.  I have noticed that its hard to judge speed in this SIM.  Is this a graphics issue? Is there a thread regarding his?

[Rickenbacker]

I've never actually ripped the wings off any plane in AH, but maybe that's just my flying style. The compression is kinda odd, though. It's just as if someone threw a switch, disconnecting your controls, and then as the speed goes down, connecting them again. Shouldn't it be more gradual? I haven't flown fast enough to experience compression IRL, nor do I ever want to  .

Rickenbacker

[Vermillion]

Finally ripped a set of wings off the day before yesterday.

P-47D Jabo run with 1,000lbers, dropped the bombs just as I was nearing compression, slight pull on the stick...

SNAP!

And my aircraft followed the eggs right into the enemy's burning hanger.

Of course it couldn't have been the fact that my "slight" pull at that speed and attitude, literally pegged the G meter  

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Downtown]

From my reading they gave a safety specification 1 and 1/2 G less than the test pilots would stress the aircraft.  From the former test pilots they would take the planes up, make sure it would do the basic manuvers (shake the plane to make sure everything was in place.) Then stunt it taking it to the redline of every specification.  Ergo a plane rated for 8 Gs should take 9.5 which I know factory test pilots would stress the plane too.

Erik Shilling who test piloted the P-47 recounted a story about an army pilot who dove a jug and it started shaking, so he bailed.  Erik said that he had, had several jugs shake up prior to compression, but decreasing the angle of the dive made the problem go away, increasing the angle repeated the problem.  After landing he checked and found the antenna loose.  He borrowed a wrench and tightend the antenna and the plane was fine after that.  He checked several more planes, but never thought that it would be a problem, it was just a loose antenna.  Anyhow the Army Pilot haveing bailed caused a big stir with Republic, and they were very thankfull for Erik finding the problem (even if he was a bit remiss in not mentioning it before the incedent with the army pilot occured.)

From what I have read, the P-47 should out perform the pony in roll and on horizontal type manuvers.  I don't remember reading the Jug as having great e-retention, but it should out accelerate the pony and out flat turn it.  The pony should have the jug in verticals.  The Hog should have both in S-Turns but the Jug should have the advantage over the Pony.

I don't remember his name but on the history channel a WWII Pilot said.

"All those pretty turns, spirals and manuvers look good in an airshow, but will get you killed real quick in combat."

Avoid any manuver that doesn't involve E when flying U.S. Aircraft and you will do well.

U.S. Pilots said that the Early P-40 was by far the best U.S. Turn fighter of the War.  Ergo DON'T TURN FIGHT IN U.S. AIRCRAFT!

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"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
     lkbrown1@tir.com      
 http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1
Wrecking Crews "Drag and Die Guy"
Hals und beinbruch!

[This message has been edited by Downtown (edited 07-31-2000).]