Author Topic: This Fence Hurts my ......  (Read 1263 times)

Offline midnight Target

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15114
This Fence Hurts my ......
« on: February 21, 2003, 05:43:09 PM »
I am still not sure about this Iraq thingy.

I mean, if Saddam is such a huge threat... what the hell are we waiting for? Why do we need another resolution or an even bigger coalition? If he directly threatens our safety then Bush should have attacked by now don't you think?

What do we do with 200k troops if Saddam complies with all requests? Is it even possible to back down now?

But mostly I feel bad. I feel bad about being the aggressor in a war. This is new territory for us and it just seems wrong to me. If we commit troops to battle, I just hope that we are just in our cause.

Really not sure yet, but I support every SOB (testing SOB's search engine) that is sent into harms way.

Offline SOB

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10138
This Fence Hurts my ......
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2003, 05:58:51 PM »
Did thomeone thay my name?  Byeee...


SOB
Three Times One Minus One.  Dayum!

Offline ra

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3569
This Fence Hurts my ......
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2003, 06:13:51 PM »
Quote
I feel bad about being the aggressor in a war.

You wouldn't feel so bad if you paid attention to what is going on.  Just because some UN countries don't approve doesn't make us the aggressor.  This war started when Iraq invaded Kuwait, this is just round 2.

ra

Offline weazel

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1471
Bush Leagues
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2003, 06:24:58 PM »
White House advisors looking for a "way out" of war with Iraq
By CHB Staff
Feb 20, 2003, 05:47

 
Quote
Some strategists within the Bush Administration are urging the President to look for an "exit strategy" on Iraq, warning the tough stance on war with the Arab country has left the country in a "no win" situation.

"At this point, the United States and Britain does not have the support for passage of a second UN resolution," admits a White House aide.

In addition, Republican leaders in both the House and Senate are telling the Presidently privately that he is losing support in Congress for a "go it alone war" against Iraq.


Like rats on a ship even the Republican leaders of the House and Senate are jumping off chimpys sinking ship.

Only 692 days left before America gives the pResident the boot.
:cool:

Offline funkedup

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9466
      • http://www.raf303.org/
This Fence Hurts my ......
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2003, 06:39:31 PM »
I like the idea of using the threat of military force to bluff Saddam into compliance.  But I'm not sure Saddam responds to anything but bombs falling on his army.

I don't like the idea of invading Iraq without UN authorization.  I'm sure the people in the White House and the Pentagon don't like it either, which is why US hasn't invaded or started air strikes yet.

I hope Saddam continues to move toward disarmament.  He's not there yet but there has been more movement in the last few months than the previous 10 years.  He needs to speed it up though.  The problem is that the same uncertainty about war our leaders are using to motivate Saddam is also affecting our people psychologically, in a negative way.

Offline AKIron

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13294
This Fence Hurts my ......
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2003, 07:39:12 PM »
Well get off the damn fence and come to the dark side! You know you want to.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Mini D

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6897
      • Fat Drunk Bastards
This Fence Hurts my ......
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2003, 07:59:15 PM »
I have to say I'm on the fence with this one too.  I really wish we would have dealt with Saddam back during the gulf war.  We ended that too hastily.

This whole thing reminds me of a guy I used to work with in the Air Force.  He was a real dipshit.  At one time, doing maintenance on a MAU-12 bomb-rack, he had a nuclear concent solenoid that he was holding in one hand with a pair of vice grips and torquing with a 7 level screwdriver in the other hand (a threaded eyelet is supposed to come out by hand).  I asked him if he'd backed the set screw out before trying and he said he had.  I checked the set screw and it was fully tight.  He'd cleared out about 1/4 inch of threading on the eyelet.  This meant that any movement would throw it out of adjustment and not allow a release.  Once again, this was a plunger for the NUCLEAR CONCENT SWITCH.

I got the individual off of the floor and explained the situation to the shop cheif and OIC.  I explained that this type of maintenance on this type of equipment was dangerous and should not be tollerated.  They replied "we'll keep an eye on him".

2 months later, they tried to give him an article 15 for working without a T.O. open.  He was knocking out pins that held pads onto a shaft.  Its something we did every night about 100 times... usually saving them all up for someone to do since its such tedeous work.  I'd never seen anyone us a Tech Order to do that maintenance.

Someone renders a nuclear concent switch inopperable via his sub-standard maintenance skills and nothing happens.  He knocks pins out of a metal rod without a T.O. and they try to kick him out.  They were actually loosing the court case when the kid went wacko and threatened his roomate with a samurai sword.  He was kicked out for being mental.

Seems the president is trying to make alot out of not very much right now.  Things they've been perfectly acceptable for the past 30 years are somehow not tollerable now.  Something that more than a few other countries are also doing is only relevant when its Iraq.  Saddam should have been dealt with long ago, when there were more than enough good reasons to do so.

MiniD

Offline Tumor

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4294
      • Wait For It
Re: Bush Leagues
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2003, 08:02:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by weazel


Only 692 days left before America gives the pResident the boot.
:cool:


In favor of.....????
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann

Offline Batz

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3470
      • http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/o/wotans/4JG53/
This Fence Hurts my ......
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2003, 08:18:34 PM »
Theres a division in the Bush admin. On one side Powell and crew that like to stick with the old approach, build coalitions, mass forces, get in, get out quick. They also prefer "containment" over direct action.

Then theres Rumsfeld and crew, they believe in preemptive action in order to maintain the security of the US. They believe in striking first and if need be unilaterally. To sustain this policy they want a military that stays several steps ahead of the rest of the world.

Bush and Cheney both have been swayed by this later arguement since 9/11. You see this is what is called the "Bush Doctrine". However Bush Sr. and  in particular Powell have pushed for more restraint and it was Powell who got Bush Jr to go through the UN. Thats the reason for Scowcroft letter in the papers.

Thats why Powell was the one to make the arguement to the UN.

However its far more likely war will come. But we dont know. Bush could have decided on a middle ground and decided to use the show of force and rhetoric to push Suddam into compliance.

This is unlikely however. Theres been several "reports" that say Bush Jr has tortured over the idea of wmd being used on Americans. While the Rumsfeld crew have been advocates of a preemptive policy going back to Gulf War 1 (they wanted to take out Suddam totally, or at the very least support the Shi'ite and the Kurds) it was Powell who made the arguement to Bush Sr. that it was time to stop.  Bush Sr. from his CIA days has always be an advocate of "containment". He also had relationships with many members of the "coalition" and felt he didnt want to fracture those relationships. The Rumsfeld group wanted to go after Suddam 1st in the War on terror. Powell advocated a different approach

Things are different now, those on Rumsfeld side used 9/11 to bring home their point. Cheney now fully support their view. They say that sitting around waiting for something happen before we respond is in effect shirking their responsibilities.

They are committed to a strike first policy against potential threats not only to pre-empt but to prevent action that threaten the security of the US. And they feel if necessary we should go alone.

They believe not only will they get rid of Suddam but the will send a message to the world that no matter who you are or where you should you threaten the security of the US there will be consequence. They believe this threast will be a deterrent much in the same way that "assured mutal destruction" was a deterrent during the cold war. The implications of the "Bush Doctrine" reach further then just Iraq.

I think Bush is more to the side of the Rumsfelds but respects Powell, Scowcroft and his daddy enough not to make a snap descision. He is willing to give the UN a chance to make up its mind. But it would appear no matter which way the UN goes the US will attack Iraq.

If for no other reason then to make an example out of him.

No matter which way you lean I think its much better that the US wait until they propose the next UN resolution.

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Re: This Fence Hurts my ......
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2003, 10:19:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
What do we do with 200k troops if Saddam complies with all requests? Is it even possible to back down now?
 


H*ll yes it's possible.

We bring 'em home, hoist some beers and rejoice that this was all settled without a war.

And I'll salute the Admin for getting it done by spending only money instead of blood.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Batz

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3470
      • http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/o/wotans/4JG53/
This Fence Hurts my ......
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2003, 11:26:09 PM »
Toads right, it aint use umm or loose umm 200k without a loss and the strategic goals are met thats a victory even if ya dont fire a shot. Actually thats the best kind.

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18758
Re: Bush Leagues
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2003, 11:27:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by weazel
Only 692 days left before America gives the pResident the boot.
:cool:


I bet he gets a second term .. u bet he won't?
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
This Fence Hurts my ......
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2003, 02:44:35 AM »
Maybe he can lose another election and still win.
sand

Offline rpm

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15661
Re: Re: Bush Leagues
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2003, 05:41:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
I bet he gets a second term .. u bet he won't?


Let's see...
Before Bush:
 Nation Deficit wiped out
 Strong Economy
 Unemployment at Record low

After Bush:
 National Deficit returns
 Economy Faltering
 Unemployment Rate Climbing like Bf109-f on WEP
 Anyone remember ENRON??

Bush 2004 sounds like money in the bank to me!

BTW...How long before the Daughters are in Penthouse?
My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
Stay thirsty my friends.

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
This Fence Hurts my ......
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2003, 08:50:40 AM »
Let's see........ Before Bush, no 9/11.

No huge spending related to a multitude of uncountable aspects of 9/11.

And we won't even get into "missed opportunities with respect to Osama before Bush."
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!