Author Topic: N.Korea launches missle...  (Read 1092 times)

Offline medicboy

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N.Korea launches missle...
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2003, 10:45:31 AM »
"North Coreea is no threatt to the US. Its simple redickulus."


Ummm, lets thinks this through.   Ther are 2 countries that are very threatened by NK, Japan and SK.   Both are our strongest allies in that part of the world, Japan second only to the UK world wide.   We have bases in both countries.  The US just doesn't mean the 50 states.   To attack a US base is enough to provoke war.   Remember Pearl Harbor?   Hawaii wasn't a US state at the time, it was just an attack on a forward US base.

Offline SLO

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N.Korea launches missle...
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2003, 01:22:04 PM »
its not cause you haven't heard of it TOAD that it doesn't exist......

the missiles used today by pakistan where sold to em by n.korea

you an your proof.....fug now I gotta research this watermelon just to put it in your face.....guess the TV doc. i saw was total bullchit right....just cause you haven't heard of it.....

well off to do research for toad....

then we'll talk about arrogance.....

Offline Hortlund

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N.Korea launches missle...
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2003, 01:35:07 PM »
Speaking of that...has anyone noticed how quiet Blitz and weazel has gone all of the sudden? Looks like the axis of morons is breaking up, turning into the dysfunctional duo (I WAS gonna name their names, but then I decided against it...lets just say they are from the UK and one of them were in the "peace"  demonstrations).

Offline Toad

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« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2003, 01:53:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SLO
its not cause you haven't heard of it TOAD that it doesn't exist......


Well, you must have heard of it then. Please post some links.

I do research and read quite a bit and I have yet to find incontrovertible proof of NK being a threat to the US or even Japan. Sure, they threaten South Korea by virtue of the huge NK army, but they've been very peaceful there since the end of the Korean War. If the South Koreans would quit provoking the NK's there'd be no problems whatsoever.

Quote
Originally posted by SLO
the missiles used today by pakistan where sold to em by n.korea


So? Do you know of ANY international prohibition on NK selling missiles to Pakistan? Are there any UN prohibitions or resolutions to that effect?

Many, many nations sell arms of all sorts to many, many other nations. I think it's arrogant of you to presume that Pakistan should not have access to whatever weapons they feel are necessary for their national defense. Typical overbearing Québécois arrogance, IMO. It's why the entire world looks down on the Québécois.

Quote
Originally posted by SLO
you an your proof.....fug now I gotta research this watermelon just to put it in your face.....guess the TV doc. i saw was total bullchit right....just cause you haven't heard of it.....


You get your views from TV? You think TV is an unimpeachable source? Please. All TV is slanted to suit the Producers own predjudices and then it must pass by the broadcaster and suit that prejudice. Did you see this on a Québécois channel?

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Originally posted by SLO
well off to do research for toad....


Please only post results that are unassailably correct. Otherwise, you're just wasting time for all the readers.

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Originally posted by SLO
then we'll talk about arrogance.....


Another typical Québécois remark.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Montezuma

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N.Korea launches missle...
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2003, 02:04:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
Interesting.....

When GW first included NK in the axis of evil, I remember critics basting GW saying NK was not a terrorist threat.

They sure don't act like a member of the axis of evil.



What do you think we should do?  
Taking into consideration that they have 10s of thousands of dug in guns within range of the S. Korean capital.

Offline SLO

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N.Korea launches missle...
« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2003, 02:05:08 PM »
In the early 1980s China is widely reported to have provided Pakistan with the blueprints for a 1966 design of a U-235 nuclear-implosion device, of the type used in the warhead that China flew on a DF-2A missile during its fourth nuclear test on 27 October 1966. This missile warhead was reported to weigh about 1,300 kilograms with a yield of 12-25 kt. This warhead design would be too large to be carried on an M-11, which does not have the range to reach beyond the Indian Desert to threaten New Delhi or other large population centers. The Ghauri missile represents both an opportunity to use heavier uranium bombs on ballistic missiles, as well as to deliver nuclear warheads to targets across much of India. The Ghauri missile was developed by the Kahuta-based Khan Research Laboratories, led by Dr. A.Q. Khan, which is responsible for uranium weapons development.


Pakistan has stated that the range and payload capacity of the missile will be upgraded. Pakistan claimed that the missile had "no relevance" to China's M-11 missile, and analysis suggests that it appears to be a derivative of the North Korean Nodong design.
This missile was first named Hataf-V, later the name was changed to Ghauri, which was approved by the prime minister. The missile was named after the 12th century Afghan king Shahbuddin Ghauri who captured western parts of India between 1176 and 1182, and captured northern India by defeating Prithvi Raj Chauhan in 1192. The Ghauri name is thus highly symbolic, as "Prithvi" is the name of the Indian short-range ballistic missiles, and Pakistan's "Ghauri" has a much longer range than the Indian missile.

On 06 April 1998 Pakistan carried out a successful flight test of the surface-to-surface Hatf-V (Ghauri) missile with a range of 1,500 kilometers (937 miles) and a payload capacity of 700 kg. The missile was tested to hit a target at a range of 1,100 kilometers. The Ghauri was fired from Malute, near the city of Jhelum in northeastern Pakistan, and impacted the target near the southwestern city of Quetta. This is a distance of only some 700 km, significanly less than the claimed range of up to 1,500 km/930 miles.

The Indian Test of the Agni II IRBM was conducted 11 April 1999. Pakistan responded on 14 Apr 1999 with a test firing of its Ghauri II missile from the Jhelum region in northeast Pakistan. The vehicle reportedly struck a target in the Baluchistan desert about 1,100 km. away.


It would appear that if the missile was fired directly due east, the effect of the earth's rotation would give it a range of 1,240 km. Fired in a southerly direction towards major urban targets in India, it could reach a range of some 950 km - 1,120 km.

The US-based stratfor.com intelligence consulting company suggested that Pakistan may have test fired a missile [which could be a Ghauri] on 15 August 2000, when India was celebrating Independence Day. Objects streaking through the skies in Balucistan on that day were perhaps Ghauri-III missile tested by Islamabad, or perhaps they were merely a meteor shower.
Developing Nations and Warhead Dynamic Performance

Recently, it was suggested that the developing nations missile program warheads would be tumbling about their center of gravity during re-entry, which would then make it difficult to identify. This was because they were not being spun-up along their longitudinal axis prior to re-entry through the atmosphere.

A warhead is much like a bullet fired from a rifle barrel. If the barrel is grooved to spin up the bullet along its longitudinal axis it tends to fly through the atmosphere to its target more smoothly and accurately. If the barrel is not built with this capability, the bullet tumbles uncontrollably about its center of gravity throughout its flight in the atmosphere to its target. This tumbling reduces the accuracy of the projectile.

This kind of missile warhead tumbling was noted in the ballistic flights of Iraqi's Scud-B, Scud-C/Al-Hussein, Scud-D/Al-Abbas ballistic missiles during the Gulf war. In this particular case all of the warheads remained attached to the Scud derived rocket bodies. The length of the Scud-C and D missile bodies and the failure to spin up either the missile with its warhead or separate the warhead after missile spin up made them extremely unstable and in accurate during re-entry to their target.

Today this is not the case with North Korean derived warhead technology. North Korea successfully demonstrated payload spin up with the satellite launch attempt of the Taep'o-dong-1 or PAEUTUSAN-1 booster. The Paeutusan-1 solid propellant third stage both demonstrated a near full duration burn and the spin up of the stage and satellite along its longitudinal axis. However, the third stage solid motor ruptured, de-orbiting the satellite, almost immediately after achieving orbital velocity.

Therefore, it would be correct to assume that besides North Korea's, No-dong (first stage of Taep'o-dong-1), both Pakistan's Ghauri-II and Iran's Shahab-3 all benefit from this spin-up technology. The Shahab-3/Ghauri-II both apparently spin up the single booster stage and warhead combination starting at about 10 seconds before the termination of the powered flight at 110 seconds. At this point after 110 seconds of powered flight the warhead is then separated from the booster stage to fly on a re-entry trajectory that remains stable to its target. With the addition of GPS targeting the warhead accuracy is greatly enhanced. There are still many in the analytical community that question, perhaps correctly, this suggested accuracy of 190 meters to over one kilometer. There can be no doubt that this spin-up technology does improve the accuracy of these warheads over the previously demonstrated poor capability. Since the warheads are not tumbling it in fact enhances the interceptor sensor signature identification capability verses that of a tumbling warheads signature.

Equally revealing is the fact that this is the area where the Iranian Shahab-3 has repeatedly failed in flight test. If the steering vains are not equally positioned correctly or are defective in any way the missile and warhead combination would tumble about its center of gravity out of control destroying the missile. The resulting tumbling warhead whether attached to the remaining missile body or not would in all probability be destroyed during its re-entry. It is known that Iran has and continues to suffer from a steering vain quality control problem for its Shahab-3 ballistic missile that the Germans during WW-II solved and that the United States and former Soviet Union were able to easily resolve with out using specialized coating.

Sources and Resources
An Analysis of the Pakistani Ghauri Missile Test of 6 April 1998 David C. Wright - Union of Concerned Scientists and Security Studies Program, MIT -- 12 May 1998
DPRK - Pakistan Ghauri Missile Cooperation by Joseph S. Bermudez Jr. - 21 May 1998 -- The birth of the Ghauri program is believed to date to late 1993, or early 1994, following Benazir Bhutto's travel to P'yongyang on 30 December to request assistance from the DPRK.

Has Pakistan Test-Flown Its New Missile? http://www.stratfor.com 2209 GMT, 000818

Pakistan Completes 'Trials' of Ghauri-III Missile Engine Islamabad The News 30 September 1999 page 10 -- Pakistan has successfully completed the trials of Ghauri-III missile's engine at Kahuta Research Laboratories. Ghauri-III would cover the range of over 3,000 kilometres.
pakistan completes trial of ballistic missile engine sept. 30, irna - pakistan successfully completed the trial of the engine of the 3000-kilometer range "ghauri-111" missile

U-S/PAKISTAN Voice of America 14 April 1999 -- WHITE HOUSE OFFICIALS NOTE THE TWO COUNTRIES HAD -- AT LEAST -- INFORMED EACH OTHER OF THEIR INTENTIONS.
U.S. REGRETS SUBCONTINENT MISSILE TESTS, SAYS INDERFURTH By William B. Reinckens USIA 14 April 1999 -- Washington -- "We regret that Pakistan has tested," Assistant Secretary of State

Offline N1kPaz

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N.Korea launches missle...
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2003, 02:09:20 PM »
too bad we dont have any smallpox infected blankets we could drop on them.

Offline AWMac

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« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2003, 02:56:39 PM »
Quote
. If the South Koreans would quit provoking the NK's there'd be no problems whatsoever.


Ohhhh Phaleeeeez....

  I've spent over 11 years in South Korea and Toad must be living in a mystical World.  But what scares me the most is that Toad may even believe in his own posts.   :rolleyes:

  Crap in, crap out.

Offline Cobra

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« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2003, 03:25:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by N1kPaz
too bad we dont have any smallpox infected blankets we could drop on them.


The first documented attempted use of biological warfare.

During the French and Indian war at Fort Pittsburgh (I think??).  Circa June of 1761.

The British fort was under seige by 2 or more of the local Indian Nations.

There was a smallpox outbreak within the fort, but since most Brits were exposed to the virus doing their youth, the outbreak would not be widespread throughout the fort.

Upon learning of the seige and the smallpox outbreak, the overall British Commander sent word back to the fort to try to somehow infect the Indians.

Before his dispatch arrived at the fort, the local commander already reached the same decision.

Under the guise of a white flag negotiation, the British gave as "gifts" blankets infected with smallpox.

It is not known whether this attempt was successful, but a smallpox outbreak did occur among the Indian tribes present at the seige and the seige was broken.

I used to know the names of the commanders involved, and the exact Fort location, but my memory is hazy on that.

But it was the first documented attempted use of such a weapon.

Now back to topic......

I think Toad is playing a very good devil's advocate.

Offline Toad

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N.Korea launches missle...
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2003, 04:33:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SLO
In the early 1980s China is widely reported
 

Quote
Originally posted by SLO
This missile warhead was reported  to weigh
 

 
Quote
Originally posted by SLO
The Ghauri missile was developed by the Kahuta-based Khan Research Laboratories,  led by Dr. A.Q. Khan, which is responsible for uranium weapons development.
 

Quote
Originally posted by SLO
Pakistan claimed that the missile had "no relevance" to China's M-11 missile, and analysis suggests that it appears to be a derivative of the North Korean Nodong design.


Quote
Originally posted by SLO
Therefore, it would be correct to assume
 

Quote
Originally posted by SLO
21 May 1998 -- The birth of the Ghauri program is believed  to date to


Good Cod, Slo! Did you actually READ any of this tripe before you posted it?

"Widely reported"? "Was reported"? "analysis suggests"? "to assume"? "is believed"?

NONE of those terms is definite. It's ALL speculation as I said before. There's no "smoking gun" here and for more reasons than that.

1. It's all speculation. The terms use prove that; there's no firm documentation, no attribution, no solid references.

2. The article says The Ghauri missile was developed by the Kahuta-based Khan Research Laboratories, not the NK's. Yet YOU don't seem to want to admit that, do you? And it's in your own "proof"!

3. You supply NO PROOF that any international agency has prohibited NK from selling missiles to anyone by resolution or treaty or whatever. In fact, the recent sale of Scuds to Yemen was allowed to go through after the ship was stopped. So, there's actual PROOF that NK IS allowed to sell missiles by the UN and International Community.

4. You drag up Pakistan as a red herring. I thought you were talking about NK, yet this whole text is about Pakistan's missile project. Again, do you have some proof that the UN or the International Community have prohibited Pakistan from developing missiles? Where are the resolutions?

5. What sort of arrogance allows you to decide what type of weapons Pakistan is allowed to have anyway?

I say again: "No War For Kimchee!"

Not a single one here has posted ANY proof that NK is a threat.

Where is the evidence that they have a nuclear WMD? Where is the evidence that they have a missile loaded with such a weapon that can reach the US?

You are all victims of lying government propaganda distributed by a captive, submissive, lying media.

Give the UN time to get inspectors back into NK and give them time to do their work.

On May Day there will be a huge worldwide March in support of the oppressed leader of NK. Please do your part and particpate!

I know Blix and Bounder will join us in this march!

"No War For Kimchee!"
« Last Edit: February 25, 2003, 04:46:01 PM by Toad »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline SLO

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N.Korea launches missle...
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2003, 08:21:16 AM »
I told you that NK sold missiles to pak.......

now I'll find out about range for NK missiles.....i'll give you the site instead

http://fas.org/nuke/guide/dprk/

Offline Toad

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N.Korea launches missle...
« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2003, 09:23:33 AM »
Again you failed to show any reason WHY NK should NOT be allowed to sell missiles to Pakistan.

Neither NK or Pakistan are under any UN sanctions are they?

So your position on this has no relevance. It's like saying Kim Jong Il likes old movies. So what? It's not illegal.


Your "source" page for range provides absolutely no proof whatsoever that NK missiles can reach the US. Once again, it is all speculation, no doubt fostered by a government intent on going to war with someone.

Further, this is on your "source" page.

Quote
provide the DPRK with a large proportion of its foreign trade and are the sole positive component of its ailing economy.


So, you want to prevent NK from legally selling the items that provide the sole positive component of it's economy?

You want to starve more NK's?

How typically arrogant.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Dowding

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N.Korea launches missle...
« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2003, 09:30:53 AM »
Quote
The first documented attempted use of biological warfare.


...wasn't in 1761. People have been using diseased carcasses and bodies to fling over walls into cities under siege for thousands of years.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Saurdaukar

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N.Korea launches missle...
« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2003, 10:04:50 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
...wasn't in 1761. People have been using diseased carcasses and bodies to fling over walls into cities under siege for thousands of years.


Yes - I believe we have the French to thank for this.

Rotten cattle indeed.  :D