AI buffs...creating (forcing) balance? :)

[Merlin]

I posted this idea on AGW and I wonder if it might be worth discussion in AH as balancer for a 3 country setup.

I am making a couple of assumptions. 1. Buffs were/are a critical component of the era and must be incorporated. 2. A three country system will become a two on one vulchfest.

So...what if AI buffs were incorporated into the strat system. They would airlaunch from deep in friendly territory at alt and head to the largest enemy's targets. The number of planes and routes would be dependent on the mathmatical disadvantages the weaker side had.

Let's say two 4-6 B17's launch at 20k when a country is down to 2-3 fields and proceed in a straight line, with otto defending, to the forward fields the enemy has captured. They pound the field to closure allowing the weaker country an opportunity to send in troops. The stronger country must defend by launching fighter sweeps at the incoming buffs that are showing on radar, grabbing to 20k where only strong numbers of fighters can knock down enough buffs to slow the attack. Not responding guarantees the strong possability of field loss.

Some potential benefits include giving squads a target other than fields to fly interdicition or if you are the weaker country to fly alongside the buffs as escorts. Maybe the AI announces to the weaker country the raids and destinations so they can mount a troop insertion with escorts so the second weaker country does not beat them to the target.

How about the option of allowing the weaker country to airlaunch buffs alongside the AI pilots ensuring safety in numbers and a fun mission to take the time to fly and buff in?

Many things would need to be addressed but the addition of strat in the air might be worth considering.

<S> Merlin

[Hans]

I think I speak for everyone that....and you probably can quote anyone here....


....AI ANYTHING is not fun......


Period.


If you want to balance numbers when it comes down to unfair sizes of teams, you really only have two options, and only one is good.

1.  Limit team sizes so they cannot be unbalancing (the bad idea).

2.  Give the weaklings better weapons to even up the fight (the good idea).

Letting the little guys use things not normally available to the other teams does two things.   They fight better and they become desirable to new entries to join, thereby eliminating the unballance and returning them to normal equipment.

Think of it this way.  Germany fielded small numbers of superior equipment late in the way when they could no longer field large numbers in a vain hope that this would allow them to hold their own.  Lets do the same.  Weak sides should be allowed to use the next part of the RPS and the vunder veapons that you read about in books (Me262, Me163, Ar234, F8F, P80).

It would be fun to be the only kid on the block in a Ta152 when everyone else is in Fw190A8s.  It wouldn't be unfair either.

Boy would that be a shock to the big country to suddenly be on equal terms.

Hans.

[roblex]

No I cant agree with giving the smallest country better equipment.  Imagine you have 11 red Spits and 5 Green Spits.

The Greens get given Me262s so now we have 5 Me262 versus  11 red spits.

three Reds change to Green to get the 262s but the third only gets a spit because numbers are now level. Now we have 7 green 262s and a spit versus 8 red spits.  Not fair!

I am suprised that nobody has suggested the obvious solution that you are not allowed to join a country that already has a significant numerical advantage. This is how scenarios are run in WB and it causes few problems.It may cause a problem for a squad meeting but if you are trying to join the same country as your squad and cant get in because they have a huge numerical advantage any honourable squad should change sides anyway.  All this supposes that people do not get attached to a particular country. For some reason in WB most of us ARE attached to a certain country while in Dawn Of Aces whole squads change countries several times a night just to keep numbers even. I am not saying DOA pilots have more honour than WB pilots, I fly both and for some reason you act differently in each game.

Oh btw, I for one would have no objection to computer controlled bombers being automatically generated whenever a country becomes seriously undermanned. A better idea would be a series of NEUTRAL bomber flights launched against any country that becomes seriously over-manned for over 5 minutes. This might force a country to re-consider their numbers advantage or ask newcomers to please join a different country.

Roblex

[Hans]

FORCE the new players to join a team they don't want to?

NO!.  Thats not right.  Who wants to be forced to do something?

No no no.

Second.  Where did you come up with your statistics for what would become balanced or not.  Also remember that joining the low team instantly changes the balance of power (meaning the very microsecond you join and bring the two sides closer together the uber planes are disabled).  Remember, you not just raising the ranks of the small team, you also lowering the ranks of the big team.  Your example of spits vs 262s would never happen.  I don't know how fast you are, but most people cannot select aircraft faster than the speed of light like your hypothetical pilots were able to do.

I like the idea of allowing special aircraft, but only under extreme circumstances.  It gives them a viable and interesting place to be used in the game.  It also keeps them rare like they were in history.

I doubt it I will ever see this sort of thing though.

Hans.

[eagl]

I'm curious about the official Aces High "philosophy" regarding AI...  In WB, the intent seemed to be to prevent ANY AI from imitating real people.  Otto and ack weenies were the exceptions, but even text-only organizational tools that chatted on the radio were limited to machine-like interaction.

What's the official word with AH?  I'm not asking 'cause I want it one way or the other, I'm just curious what the philosophy will be this time around.


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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!

[Carrot]

I think the ability to have a couple of AI buffs generated next to a RI controlled buff is a good idea.
But just AI buffs trolling the skies is bad IMO.

So anyone hopping in a buff automatically gets two wing buffs that fly beside and just behind the "real" buff. They drop when the real one does, and if the real one dies they disappear.

Definate incentive for buffing.   Lets see some buff boxes for me to attack.


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Carrot
RNZAF
"Outta my way!! Lawndart in Progress."

[Audie]

hmmm...  AI buffs isn't too bad an idea... maybe along the lines of if your country is reduced X% below next highest numbers any buffers launching get alt start and 2 or 3 AI's..  hmmmm

On the limiting a side..  what about squads..  when WB had arena limits it was hard enough when 8 squaddies got in and the rest had to goto to topup arena..  what they did of course was log off...

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Audie VF-17 The Jolly Rogers 8X in WB
The dweeb formerly known as -audi-

[roblex]

Hans,  I have obviously misunderstood what you are saying. Here is what I said again

>>Imagine you have 11 red Spits and 5 Green Spits.The Greens get given Me262s so now we have 5 Me262 versus 11 red spits.

Am I correct at this point ? We have a clear imbalance so greens get uber-planes.We now have 5 green Me262s in the air.

>>Three Reds change to Green to get the 262s but the third only gets a spit because numbers are now level. Now we have 7 green 262s and a spit versus 8 red spits. Not fair!

Shall we take this one at a time? One Red changes so it is 10 v 6 and he gets a Me262 and takes off. Six green Me262s in the air.
Another Red changes so we have 9 v 7. Maybe you are saying that at this point the imbalance is not enough for this new pilot to get an Uber-Plane but we still have Six Me262s in the air, possibly engaged in battle. Are you suggesting that at this point the Me262s vanish ?  Turn into Spitfires at 600mph and break up?  I assumed that once launched they stayed as 262s which is why I said it would become unfair.  Dont get cross,  explain it in language an idiot can understand  

Roblex