Author Topic: Nice 20/20 about our glorious airforce (Read 2321 times)

miko2d · « **on:** February 28, 2003, 09:51:04 PM »

We should re-broadcast it on Iraq. That will make irakis think twice before trying to resist...

P.S. What really surprised me was not that scores if not hundreds of women cadetes got raped over the years and everyone knew about that and did nothing, but how come nobody got killed?
We had quite a lot of abuse in the soviet army - nothing like rape, of course - and from time to time somebody would get his brains ventilated on a shooting range or a guard duty.
I am not even sure what kind of military I dislike more - the rapists and their friends who kept quiet or those who allowed themselves to be raped without consequences because of carreer considerations?

miko

Mini D · « **Reply #1 on:** March 01, 2003, 01:17:00 AM »

Ya, 20/20, now there's objective reporting.

MiniD

davidpt40 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 01, 2003, 04:05:30 AM »

Corruption is quite deeply embedded in the U.S. military. I am not sure if you have seen "Pentagon Wars", but it is the true story of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle, and how the Army kept rigging tests for this death trap to pass. David Hackworth, Americas highest decorated living soldier is a big advocate of military reform, and is quite the whistle blower on military scandals.

The main problem with the military is that there are alot of officers only concerned with promotion. Todays military is a "1 strike and your out" kind of deal. Then theres the enlisted guys who don't belong in the military at all, but they cant do anything else.

lord dolf vader · « **Reply #3 on:** March 01, 2003, 07:50:45 AM »

i honestly believe it has to do with the "stand up and lie like a white man" crap that is passed off as nessisary evil in order to get what is right dont matter if good men die in the process in peace time. in our military as a fairly recent exvet i have seen it . the people in positions or power got there by kissing bellybutton not being better (you can tell the endlessly talk about how important it is to be better) while being petty sissys almost to a man themselves. or stark ravin death wish loonies very little in between.

the "conservative" viewpoint that is so popular in the military was disgusting enough to me that i changed political partys and blew my life (stoped lying like a white man) to get away from the lying cheats we call managers/officers in our american culture to save some piece of my soul. i entered the navy a conservative republican and left it the furthest from the ideals of the tratorious lying bastards calling them selves conservatives i could. i will spend the rest of my life fighting them. if there is to be a death of america it will come at their hands. think what you will im totaly serious.

i have been so effected by actions i saw in the military this is the toned down version.

Batz · « **Reply #4 on:** March 01, 2003, 07:53:21 AM »

dont ask dont tell bite in the arse?

Sandman · « **Reply #5 on:** March 01, 2003, 12:00:02 PM »

Hey now... the Air Force needs all the propoganda they can get.

The Constitution requires that the goverment maintain an Army and a Navy. There's no mention of an air force.

miko2d · « **Reply #6 on:** March 02, 2003, 10:08:24 AM »

Mini D: Ya, 20/20, now there's objective reporting.

Right in front of the camera a reporter asks whatever general is currently a superintendant of the Airforce Acadamy: "How many of the 99 incidents of rape reported over the last 7 years in this acadamy do you believe were true?"

The general thinks for about five seconds and responds: "I believe all of them were true."

Than he says only one case was brought to court-martial and aquitted for lack of evidence and that there are many more abuses than reported because it does not pay to report one.

How the hell more objective could it be? Do you want the general to undergo medical examination to make sure he was not kidnapped, drugged and tortured by 20/20 affiliates into making that admission?
From time to time you should swich your prejudices off and actually see and listen what is going on rather than what station broadcasts it - and if your cult leader does not approve of you watching 20/20, at least you could have asked here what the heck I am talking about before venturing an off-the shelf opinion.

I am pissed off about it because right there my wife asked me: "Do you still want to send our daughters to serve in the army?" On which I replied "Well, we can raise them in a way that they cannot be taken advantage of no matter what is done to others..."

But then I thought long those lines:

She can say no and take no sh#t from anyone. She can try to not to participate in any activities that would give anyone reason to blackmail her - drink coke while her friends drink beer, not do any minor infractions and violations that any soldier/cadet does. etc. She could even warn her friends that she is not going to put out to a superior to save their tulips from a reprimand. She would have no friends but she could survive. Still, that does not change the fact that she would serve under officers who used their authority to force themselves on subordinates - and probably preferred rape to regular sex because I cannot believe such people woudl have truble finding willing partners. She would serve with comrades who knew about others being raped and did nothing. She would serve with comrades so cowardly and lacking in honor, that they allowed a women - their buddy - be raped to avoid a minor reprimand for drinking beer. She would serve under officers who care only about their career rather than well-being of the soldiers under their command or laws or anything at all and would sweep under the carpet any crime that could potentially mar their record.
I am not even talking of how such army would behave towards an enemy's troops, prisoners and civilians...

What the heck do I do? Teach my children not to serve in the military and not be ready to defend their country? Have them learn French and try for Legion Etrangere? Have them learn Hibrew and apply for a tour in IDF? Have them learn English and apply to british military? Any other real military out there in a democratic country?
Should I "home school" them in military matters? I will do that anyway but there is a difference between knowing your way around weapons and being a soldier of one's country.

miko

Mini D · « **Reply #7 on:** March 02, 2003, 10:54:40 AM »

Right Miko.

Now go and ask the same thing at any college campus.

Hell "60% of all women will be raped at some point in their life". That's a pretty rediculous statistic given that I know probably a few hundred women and none of them have been raped.

The truth is, the definition of rap has expanded to cover groping, sex while drunk, bad sex in addition to the truly haneous acts. It diminishes the statistic and inflates the numbers. Hell, making a woman feel uncomfortable in a group can now be construed as rape.

Then... walk into a bar on an average night. Look around and guess that 90% of the women that leave there with a man could press charges for rape the next day.

Its 20/20, the news group that put detonator charges in Chevy pickups so they could get one exploding on film. They have a tendancy to inflate, expand and exagerate to the point that they have long stopped being credible journalists.

MiniD

fd ski · « **Reply #8 on:** March 02, 2003, 11:16:10 AM »

yeah Mini, everyone knows that all women secretly are just begging to get it !!

Miko, in case you didn't get a notification, the only TV station that is taken seriously here is Fox, but you have to get your lobotomy first before you can watch it. Once you start, you'll find it very familiar. I sure did.

miko2d · « **Reply #9 on:** March 02, 2003, 12:52:41 PM »

Mini D: Now go and ask the same thing at any college campus....
...The truth is, the definition of rap has expanded to cover groping, sex while drunk...
Its 20/20, the news group that put detonator charges in Chevy pickups so they could get one exploding on film.

You still do not get it, Mini...
I am not basing my judgement on what 20/20 was saying but on what the airforce general was saying in front of the camera and on what those eight young women were saying in front of the camera - including teh one still in teh academy.
They did not use any words that would have to be beeped off but they were very explicit and what was done to them was quite definitely rape and or sex forced by blackmail. That is of course if what they are saying was true - buy if the academy superintendant believed them and said so right there, who am I to argue?
Why don't you check the transcript of the show - skip anything that 20/20 people say and read the witness statements.

miko

-ammo- · « **Reply #10 on:** March 02, 2003, 01:25:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Hey now... the Air Force needs all the propoganda they can get.

The Constitution requires that the goverment maintain an Army and a Navy. There's no mention of an air force.

EWell, I guess when the Constitution was written if we had powered flight then likely there would have been provision for a maintained USAF. However Harry S. Truman fixed that in 1947

"On Sept. 17, 1947, the new National Military Establishment, including the Office of Secretary of Defense and the Departments of the Army, Navy and Air Force, came into being. President Harry S. Truman had approved the National Security Act of 1947 on July 26. He also issued Executive Order 9877 which by presidential directive outlined the duties of the three services. Each was responsible for the area in which it operated -- ground, sea and air, although the Navy retained an air arm and the Marine Corps.

On Sept. 18, 1947, W. Stuart Symington was sworn in as the first secretary of the Air Force with the new Secretary of Defense James V. Forrestal in attendance. After many years of planning, an independent air arm was formed, an equal to the Army and Navy. Based on achievements in air superiority, the Air Force became the "first line of defense" in a post-war world.

Shortly after taking office, Symington said: "In this day when a powerful counterattack is America's only real answer to aggression, there can be no question that we need the world's first Air Force. It is only through the global, flashing mobility of the Air Force that we can hold our counterattack poised ... we feel, with deep conviction, that the destiny of the United States rests on the continued development of our Air Force."

AKIron · « **Reply #11 on:** March 02, 2003, 02:18:32 PM »

Any bastard that commits rape should be castrated, no exceptions. Having said that I'll wonder out loud how the US military academy rape statistics compare with their civilian counterparts?

Kanth · « **Reply #12 on:** March 02, 2003, 02:30:31 PM »

I dunno if you want my opinion on this but here it is:

I didn't see the episode so I read this:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/US/2020_airforce_allegations030228.html

The types of things being described in this could easily have been avoided.

These people are putting themselves in high risk situations. Some simple rules for personal conduct could have prevented 100% of what I read at this site.

Don't go privately with anyone anywhere, there is no reason to be singled out of your immediate group to somewhere private with a male no matter WHO HE IS.

NO REASON EVER.

If he threatens your career call him on it, if he takes action speak to your next up in the chain of command, if that gets no where go to the local military law office.

Don't accept blackmail, don't accept rape. Fight back. Don't get drunk and be vulnerable in public.

taking one for the team is one thing, but never would you team allow you to be raped or want you to be raped in order to hide from a anything, get some priorities in life.

be honorable and fair, work hard, don't cheat, lie or steal. etc etc....

Don't make it easy because there will always be someone to take advantage, be respectable and a good friend. Know your limits and your weaknesses and guard them accordingly.

These are just some basic things that people should know about living life.

It doesn't mean no friends, it doesn't mean no fun.

and that 60% number from MiniD, I'm going to guess more than half of those rapes occured when they were still little girls and helpless, or they were engaging in high risk behavior.

I will say that I believe it's more rare for a adult woman not engaging in high risk behavior to get caught alone and raped by someone she doesn't know.

My military experience was unique in my life and I would never trade the privilege of being a part of that family for anything.

miko2d · « **Reply #13 on:** March 02, 2003, 02:58:16 PM »

AKIron: Any bastard that commits rape should be castrated, no exceptions. Having said that I'll wonder out loud how the US military academy rape statistics compare with their civilian counterparts?

Other than a family of a rapist, who would be inetrested in hiding the rapist from justice and threatening the victim to keep quiet? Especially among officers who's duty is to uphold US laws and protect americans from enemies foreigh and domestic?

Kanth - of course teh predators select their victims among inexperienced and trusting and easily awed by authority. Those were farm girls of 18 from nice families - they would have made brillliant and courageous officers eventually, but not right from the mothers' skirts. Just the time to pounce...

As for not letting superiors hide the rape - the best thing is to confront them with a sample of sperm, bruises and a gutted body of the offender.

miko

AKIron · « **Reply #14 on:** March 02, 2003, 03:02:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by miko2d
Other than a family of a rapist, who would be inetrested in hiding the rapist from justice and threatening the victim to keep quiet?

I dunno, perhaps the staff at any number of universities around the country?

BTW I was not nor am I defending anyone that would hide such occurences. I was suggesting that rape isn't exclusive to the military and I'm curious as to whether the numbers are higher or lower than in a comparative civilian environment.