So you want to be a fighter pilot...

[fffreeze220]

Originally posted by Ghosth


Plus it has a really nasty slow speed snap stall.

 

I gotta love it when they do that under my 109

[Soda]

For a total noob, the options are more limited: Spit IX, N1K2, A6M, FM2, Hurricane II, none of the German planes (due to poor low-speed characteristics), and none of the Russian planes

I think we are back on track... I agree, though I tend to leave the Hurri IID out (crazy cannons) and add the Spit V in.  I think the Spit V can be a damn fine plane, though a little slow.  The advantage of the SpitV though is a bit better turn-rate at low speed, meaning you can kill Spit IX's if they simply turn with you.  The Zero is the ultimate turner, but tends to be almost helpless if it isn't turning.  The N1K is scary and the bane of every Spit IX driver down low.

For people from other games, I try to steer them into something that requires a bit more skill, but hasn't really picked up any vices yet.  P-51, P-38, F6F, P-47... easy US .50 ballistics, no real spooky handling issues, but room to grow when you learn the tricks (flap use, high speed dives, etc).

Then, come the "special" aircraft, ones that live on the edge of disaster half the time, or require real understanding to get best use from.  190 (roll rate so important and mis-understood), 109 (instant compression), anything with 30mm or greater, or anything with an ammo load that seems to evaporate in 2 seconds (Yak).

That's just what I tend to do though... make the transition easiest by giving them a plane that's maybe not on the ragged edge, but easily competitive if flown decently.  The La7 falls more into the "special" category because it's only real asset is that speed down low.  If it didn't have that it would be as popular as the La5FN is...  That said, speed is one of the easiest things to take away from a plane, all you need is a little alt and some speed to start with.

-Soda

[akak]

Originally posted by najdorf
Only been in game for 6 weeks, but one of the planes I have least trouble killing in my N1K is the P-38.  Maybe the guys I'm meeting in them are noobs, but they don't seem a very good match.

Personally in tour 37:  6 kills of P-38, 2 deaths to P-38

In the MA in Tour 37:  K/D of 982/643 in favor of N1K in head to head matchups.

P-38s flown by players that don't regularly fly it are most likely the ones you've run up against.


Ack-Ack

[FTJR]

"quote:
Originally posted by najdorf
Only been in game for 6 weeks, but one of the planes I have least trouble killing in my N1K is the P-38. Maybe the guys I'm meeting in them are noobs, but they don't seem a very good match.
Personally in tour 37: 6 kills of P-38, 2 deaths to P-38
In the MA in Tour 37: K/D of 982/643 in favor of N1K in head to head matchups.
quote:
Originally posted by AckAck
P-38s flown by players that don't regularly fly it are most likely the ones you've run up against."

I have to agree with AckAck P38's are fairly regularly used by people who fly other aeroplanes most of the time, but when you (or me) run across AKAK or Manx, Duvel, DblTrbl, etc in their P38's its better to  leave the scene then to tangle with them.

[hogenbor]

I do fully agree with Soda. I am still learning a lot myself but do not classify as a noob anymore I guess

Of the easy planes I quickly settled on the FM-2 but have flown almost anything from the beginning just to get a feel. As I found myself not really improving anymore, I switched to a 'difficult' plane for the last tour, the F4U1-D. Of course I had flown it before but this time I persisted and tried to live with the characteristics I don't exactly like. Result? Best K/D I ever managed in a single fighter type. You have to grow a 'feel' for any aircraft to become comfortable with it. How well does it turn, accelerate, dive, how easy does it compress. It's hard to describe in words but at some point you just KNOW that it is futile to dive on that D-9 (or not) and that you CAN kill that Spit IX because you can oumaneuver him with your E-excess. The best thing of flying the F4U is that it forces you to plan ahead, plunge headlong into any fight and you will die a lot. It made me a better (= less average) pilot.

There is nothing better than to arrive high over a friendly field being attacked and swat all opposition from the air in 5 minutes.

[SKurj]

Replace La7 in starter list with La5, move La7 into the other list.

SKurj

[gofaster]

I haven't flown the LA-5FN and don't get to fight against it very often, so I wasn't exactly sure how it fit into the categories.

So, just to refresh:

Total New Guy:
------------------
Spitfire IX (if you want to get kills)
Spitfire V (if you want to get perk points)
Seafire II (if you want to get even more perk points)
A6M2 (keep your head on a swivel)
A6M5 (keep your head on a swivel)
N1K2 (fear nothing but your lack of experience)
FM-2 (beat Spitfires and N1K2s)
LA-5

Flown Other Sims Before But Don't Know AH:
-------------------------------------------------------
P-51D
Typhoon
P-47 (all models)
P-38
Bf109 (all models)
FW190D
Ki-61
C202 and C205
F4U1A and D
Yak9U
LA-7

Ready To Try Something More Complex:
-------------------------------------------------
FW190A and F series
Bf109 w/30mm cannon option
Corsair - heavy from a carrier deck
Yak9T
P-40E
Mosquito (as a fighter)
Me-110 (as a fighter)
A-20 (as a fighter)

You Are An AH God:
------------------------
Val
P-40B

One thing I learned over the past couple of days is that the Yak-9U makes a pretty good trainer for the Bf109F.  The 109 is a bit slower with a worse roll rate and compresses a bit more at high speeds, but generally you can fight with it using the same tactics as the Yak-9U so long as you know when to get on the WEP and stay fast.

[Soda]

I'd move the La5FN out of the "easy group" and into the difficult.  It has most of the same problems as the La7, plus, doesn't have the speed and only 2 cannons.  It's a "complex" plane.... though a tonne of fun.  Still has that nasty stall, bad ballistics, etc.

Putting planes in categories like this really deserves some details around why they are there though.  Something like the Typhoon on the surface may appear to be awesome, but people who fly it know the limitations.  It has dreadful roll rate and simply isn't fast enough to escape unless you get a reasonable start.  It doesn't take damage well and the range is short (plus complicated because of all the different fuel tanks).  That doesn't make it a bad plane, just one that takes understanding to fly properly.

Also, remember that something like the Spit V can be a dominant plane if flown well.  A plane in the "new player" category likely has limits, but if you really know the plane and it's strengths/weaknesses, you can often extract enough performance out of it to be very successful.

-Soda
AH Trainer Corps.

[RTR]

Just my 2 cents worth here.
For noobs I always recommend Spits.
They are very forgiving, easy to fly (which allows the pilot to learn/grasp the concept of ACM a little quicker).
I generally steer them tpwards the Spit V only because it turns better than the other models. They move on quite quickly to other aircraft once they "get " the concept.

I trained all of my squadron in Spits and it wasn't long before they moved on (quite succesfully) to other more demanding aircraft.
So all in all I agree with soda's assesment.
( I occasionally can be seen in a spit V or IX still, I kinda like being a "spit dweeb" somedays hehe).

I thiunk the F4U (all models) belongs more in the intermediate category. They are a different beast, but can pretty much B&Z with the B&Z'rs, turn with the turnfighters etc. It doesnt do either exceptionally well, but flown well it can be a devastating peice of equipment. Been my ride of choice for a while now, and I dont regard myself as one of the "top ten" by anymeans.

P38?...well I think this is definetly one for the advanced category.
In order to effectively fight with it, you will have alot of "cockpit management" going on. This plane is probably one of the best in here, if flown well. (unfortunatley I aint the guy to do it)
It is a handfull to fly and when I meet up with one (not knowing who the stick is), it tends to command a great deal of respect from me. I still remember  getting a little lesson from Manx. I was in a N1K2 (actually I was in several of them because they kept blowing up). So here I agree with FTJR. With guys like these flying the P38, if you see  one, it better grab your attention.
cheers,
RTR

[DamnedRen]

Just a thought on newby's and LA-7's.

Soda was quite correct about newby's and running.
Why?

The average new guy has almost no concept of energy/speed management. They have their hands full just trying to get turned around. Lead turns, 0G dives are unknown to them unless they are taught them.

If you don't believe me head on over to the TA for a half hour session. You don't even have to take yer favorite "MA fast" bird up. A Spit V or Zeke will be able to keep up with 95% or them. The other 5% have talked and worked with some of the trainers and are progressing well. Many have started their real flying in the CT because the planesets, of late, have been what they are learning on and the pace is a bit slower.

IMHO thats a good thing! Dump a new guy into the gristmill of the main arena and he/she will have a hard time of it. A little training, perhaps joining a squad to get help over the little plateau's that he/she is gonna encounter goes a long way. Beside's most of the new guys end up flying with us anyway!  Let's make it fun for them and us!

So the LA7 isn't gonna do much to help the new guy.

[akak]

Originally posted by hogenbor

  It's hard to describe in words but at some point you just KNOW that it is futile to dive on that D-9 (or not) and that you CAN kill that Spit IX because you can oumaneuver him with your E-excess. The best thing of flying the F4U is that it forces you to plan ahead, plunge headlong into any fight and you will die a lot. It made me a better (= less average) pilot.

That's something you get with experience and it's all part of situational awarness.  Sometimes SA isn't just what you see around you with your eyes but sometimes what you see in your mind.  Like you said, it's really hard to describe but it's just a feeling you get.


Ack-Ack

[akak]

Originally posted by gofaster


Ready To Try Something More Complex:
-------------------------------------------------
FW190A and F series
Bf109 w/30mm cannon option
Corsair - heavy from a carrier deck
Yak9T
P-40E
Mosquito (as a fighter)
Me-110 (as a fighter)
A-20 (as a fighter)

You might want to add the Ju-87 to that list as a fighter.  I've found that nothing compares to the Ju-87 in a stall fight and it's always funny to see fighters run away from a Stuka.  With the small caliber machine guns, you have to work for your kills but it's a satisfaction beyond measure when you see someone say on Channel 1, "WTF!  I got shot down by a Stuka?!?!?".


Ack-Ack

[gofaster]

Originally posted by akak
You might want to add the Ju-87 to that list as a fighter.  I've found that nothing compares to the Ju-87 in a stall fight and it's always funny to see fighters run away from a Stuka.  With the small caliber machine guns, you have to work for your kills but it's a satisfaction beyond measure when you see someone say on Channel 1, "WTF!  I got shot down by a Stuka?!?!?".


Ack-Ack

I've done the same thing in a Dauntless (after ditching the bombs).  Its one tough bird and turns pretty good.  One trick: the nose down escape maneuver with full dive brakes. Pop the brakes, ping'em with the tail gun, then watch'em overshoot, retract the brakes and give'em the business!

[Soda]

The Ju-87, Dauntless, and Val all can do that.... it's like trying to hit a target that's barely moving in relation to you, yet dances all over the sky.  Had a couple of guys who try and suck you into that kind of fight.  Even had a guy in a Val who was looping so close to the ground that the extended landing gear would help him bounce back up into the air at the bottom of each loop.

I wouldn't consider this a standard sort of tactic though... it's more like toying with people.  Anyone smart, simply extends for 10 seconds, then comes back for another pass vs trying to hang around and turn-fight with the risk of overshoot.

-Soda
AH Trainer Corps.

[cobia38]

Originally posted by akak
P-38s flown by players that don't regularly fly it are most likely the ones you've run up against.


Ack-Ack

     tour 37  449 kills in p38
                   225 deaths in p38
             
                       I love my peeee38