Author Topic: Make hay, not war!  (Read 212 times)

Offline Jochen

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Make hay, not war!
« on: August 17, 1999, 08:25:00 AM »
Since we are going to have real virtual cocpits, I guess dreaded 'six view wars' are thing in the past, right?

There is no 2D bitmaps to be redone, all adjustments can be done by moving players head a bit in 3D space? And If I understand correctly, player can store head positions and directions which he can then recall with viewhat in his joystick?

Will there be support for virtual reality headsets? If you want to look back, you have to really turn your head to that position.

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Obfr. jochen 'Stern von Afrika' 2./ Jagdgeschwader 27 'Afrika'
jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

Brick

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« Reply #1 on: August 17, 1999, 01:37:00 PM »
VR headsets are cool...but the one I saw that would do 3d stuff in each eye was around $3,000!!!  Too rich for my blood.  

Offline Sascha JG 77

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« Reply #2 on: August 17, 1999, 02:30:00 PM »
Hmm I dunno about the latest VR-Sets but the two types I tested a while ago were horrible.
I think they were: "Virtual I/O glasses" and that VX1-Helmet thing


The I/O had a terrible tracker so it was almost impossible to control your movement.

The Helmet had a good tracker but you would sweat like a pig if you wore it for a longer period of time.
What I remember best about both of them are the headaches they gave me due to their poor resolution. This stuff can t be good for your eyes.
Are there any newer models around that DON'T blind you in the longrun?
I always thought that this would be the ultimate immersion tool for flight-sim pilots.

Sascha

Offline jedi

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« Reply #3 on: August 17, 1999, 06:44:00 PM »
One really neat thing about the old AW/WB static keypress views is that the position of the keys (or the movement of the hat switch) gives you a spatial feedback about where you're looking, and where the bandit is.  As you cycle through the views tracking him, you aren't just dependent on being able to see parts of your plane to know where he is.

This is the big failing with padlock views.  Once you reach a point where the bandit is in an area of "clear" canopy with no distinctive aircraft structure like the wing or tail in view, you rapidly lose SA on where you are looking, and how to move your controls to bring the bandit to the front view.  You also lose SA on where the plane is going, since you are reluctant to "glance" forward and lose your padlock.  This means you have to have a bogus "SA augmenter" like an attitude indicator in the corner of your screen or something similar.

VR headset would work like the key views, but only if it's sufficiently sensitive to track properly where your head is, and synched up to the sim enough that the proper view for head angle is displayed.  I'm still a little leary of having those little screens 1/2 inch from my eyes for hours at a time too  

I'm hoping for no padlock, but "panning" snap views instead that mimic head motion to the selected viewpoint.  I'll track the bandit myself, thanks    

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Ozymandias_KoK

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« Reply #4 on: August 17, 1999, 11:14:00 PM »
Hehe...we were discussing the relative uselessness of padlocks at the Con.  My point was that without pushing that hat and equating that thumb position to where the "head" is facing, oz would be completely lost.  Not to mention that in a situation other than 1v1, yer actually taking an extra step to assure target fixation.

Supposedly they were coming out with some HMD's running at 640x480 (previous generations were stuck at the hideous 320x240 -- remember Doom when it came out?) but have not heard anything about that in quite some time.  Ozreckons 640 would be "doable" as it is still a valid resolution.  How easy we get spoiled, eh?  

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Offline Mave

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« Reply #5 on: August 18, 1999, 12:39:00 AM »
Well VXD is coming out with a new high res headset if anyone is intrested. Looks good but the price is a bit steep. ;-)http://www.fortevr.com/99iis/Products/VFX3D.htm

Mave
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Offline Jochen

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« Reply #6 on: August 18, 1999, 01:16:00 AM »
 
Quote
One really neat thing about the old AW/WB static keypress views is that the position of the keys (or the movement of the hat switch) gives you a spatial feedback about where you're looking, and where the bandit is. As you cycle through the views tracking him, you aren't just dependent on being able to see parts of your plane to know where he is.

Good point. I have never learned to use padlock views in any sim, I completely lost my sense of direction.

 
Quote
I'm hoping for no padlock, but "panning" snap views instead that mimic head motion to the selected viewpoint. I'll track the bandit myself, thanks

That would be neat also. Now you can scan your surrounding 360 degree area about twice a second if you have fast fingers. If it takes half a second to head to turn from direction to another, it would be bit more realistic.

One problem that I have indentified this far is that if I'm going to have 1:1 authentic Fw 190 cocpit, how can I find all those switches if I'm wearing a VR headset?

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Obfr. jochen 'Stern von Afrika' 2./ Jagdgeschwader 27 'Afrika'
jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

Offline Pyro

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« Reply #7 on: August 18, 1999, 09:57:00 AM »
No plans for VR headsets.  They'll have to get popular before it'll be worth spending the time to implement.  Then again, it might be a real trivial matter that HT decides to do one day because some company sends us some free headsets.



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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
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