Author Topic: America Admits Torture Deaths (Read 3334 times)

-dead- · « **Reply #45 on:** March 10, 2003, 08:05:02 PM »

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Originally posted by Mini D
That was 30 years ago. I believe they are out of practice. hell... anyone that knew how to do it well has retired by now. The Germans are the only ones who respect the true art of torcher enough to pass it down from one generation to another. Well.. them and the Chinese who have taken it to a religious level.

MiniD

I think you'll find it's all still on the curriculum at Fort Benning School of the Americas.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #46 on:** March 10, 2003, 08:05:54 PM »

God bless the School of the Americas!!!

Hangtime · « **Reply #47 on:** March 10, 2003, 08:58:11 PM »

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think you'll find it's all still on the curriculum at Fort Benning School of the Americas.

Riiiiiight.

Scenario:

Gitmo Bay, CIA Intelligence officer to the Taliban/AQ detainee debrief team:

"No joy with the towelheads?"

Debriefers: "Nope.. scurvy camel diddlyers decided to clam up when they read in the Red Cross supplied papers the liberals were tryin to get 'em loose."

CIA: "Really. Ok.. lets haul a couple of 'em out, rumor to the press we passed 'em to the isralis, and then let it leak that they died under torture in tel-aviv. Make sure the article gets into the papers the red cross gives the resta the towelheads.'

1 week later..

CIA: "Any luck with the sand clammers?"

Debriefers: "worked like a charm. all we gotta do is tell abdul he's flyin el-al tomorrow if he don't talk today..."

Eagler · « **Reply #48 on:** March 10, 2003, 09:22:32 PM »

LOL !

Frogm4n · « **Reply #49 on:** March 10, 2003, 11:55:10 PM »

If we are really tortureing pow's we have sunk to the level of the north vietnamese and the nazis. Who are we to attack saddam for tortureing people when our government might be allowing it. If we sink to the level of these scumbags we have come no further then they have out of the caves. I would rather die in a terrorist attack then live knowing my government is murdering POW's. /and im sure there are people out there that would love to have these people tortured that call themselves good christians. have you learned nothing from your own religion?

Pepe · « **Reply #50 on:** March 11, 2003, 02:18:14 AM »

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Originally posted by Dowding
The system was corrupt and barbaric, but the average soldier was just that.

So the system is corrupt and barbaric, but the soldiers within the system were just "that"? ... I don't get it.

Probably would like to review Japan army training systems post WWI and his behaviour in WWII. Then come back with "average soldier" and "system".

Cheers,

Fishu · « **Reply #51 on:** March 11, 2003, 02:18:35 AM »

Woo for fascism!

US Goverment seems to have became a bunch of hypocrits.. no wonder that certain countries are in disbelief at anything they say.

Dowding · « **Reply #52 on:** March 11, 2003, 02:44:11 AM »

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So the system is corrupt and barbaric, but the soldiers within the system were just "that"? ... I don't get it.

No. The system may be corrupt and barbaric, but that does not mean every soldier shares those characteristics.

beet1e · « **Reply #53 on:** March 11, 2003, 03:02:13 AM »

Dowding, I appreciate your concerns for the captured enemy. I would have been the same at your age.

But I'm twice your age, and in the time since have come to understand that whereas in civilian life we have luxuries like human rights, peace marches, vegetarians waving anti-war slogans, and women joining hands around American air bases, War is played by an entirely different set of rules. By the way, that's why the prisoners have been taken to an undisclosed third country. The CIA does not want ACLU banner wavers outside the cell windows, waving signs saying "Honk if you think the terrorists should go free" to all the passing Buicks, Pontiacs and MACK trucks.

War is hell, and there's nothing we can do to change that.

Watch the movie Fall From Grace (1994). It makes my point quite well.

davidpt40 · « **Reply #54 on:** March 11, 2003, 03:45:10 AM »

I've read a book about interrogation during the Vietnam War. It said torture isn't very reliable because the prisoners will tell you what you want to hear.

A more reliable method was to (1) make some kind of deal with the prisoner- In exchange for some information, you wouldn't ask about his family or close friends. (2) Search for the lie. If you can figure out what he (or she) is lying about, you can focus your questions around that point. Something like high pressure salesmanship.

Pepe · « **Reply #55 on:** March 11, 2003, 05:40:56 AM »

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Originally posted by Dowding
No. The system may be corrupt and barbaric, but that does not mean every soldier shares those characteristics.

I would say that a corrupt and barbaric system will produce corrupt and barbaric soldiers. I'm ready to admit exceptions to the rule, but the rule is that a corrupt and barbaric system will have similar values in educating its people and even more, in training its soldiers (thus the Japan post WWI cite).

In the sense of your first post, not every, but the average soldier will be more likely a barbaric and corrupt product of the system than not.

On a side note, this does not justify torture.

On another side note, I don't think making a woman treat them hard is torture whatsoever. We believe in woman and men being equals, don't we?.

Cheers,

StSanta · « **Reply #56 on:** March 11, 2003, 07:57:03 AM »

Scary.

I thought some people in here were nice people.

Now I realize that they're of the same material as the inquisitors and people who love to watch public executions and the like.

Oh well.

Hortlund · « **Reply #57 on:** March 11, 2003, 08:08:48 AM »

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Originally posted by Frogm4n
If we are really tortureing pow's we have sunk to the level of the north vietnamese and the nazis.

Some of you people are seriousy weird.

Lets see...torture captured terrorist to get them to reveal information about other terrorists ...slaughter and butcher 6 million jews, men, women, small children by gassing them in huge industrialized camps...

Yup same thing really. Same level. Yup.

beet1e · « **Reply #58 on:** March 11, 2003, 08:11:49 AM »

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Originally posted by StSanta
Scary.

I thought some people in here were nice people.

Now I realize that they're of the same material as the inquisitors and people who love to watch public executions and the like.

Oh well.

Santa - so just how DO you deal with criminals who have participated in the worst terrorist atrocity the world has ever known? Offer them a cup of tea and ask them to talk about their childhoods so that we can find out what motivated them to do it? Ask them if they were abused as children, and then say "Ah, that would explain it!", and then let them go?

Anyone who gets involved in an organisation like AQ surely knows the consequences of being caught.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Dowding · « **Reply #59 on:** March 11, 2003, 08:12:37 AM »

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War is played by an entirely different set of rules.

Tell that to the Japanese held POWs in WW2.

"It's ok chaps. All this beating, torture, starvation and murder is quite legitimate because war is played by entirely different set of rules. So let's knuckle down to the task of dying in agony and not complain."

I guarantee you this - you'd be carrying your nose in a hankerchief, even though the survivors are 80+ y/o.

Torture has no place anywhere. Not in war or peacetime.