Author Topic: The Case against Iraq using only UNMOVICS report  (Read 273 times)

Offline Hortlund

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The Case against Iraq using only UNMOVICS report
« on: March 10, 2003, 02:50:37 PM »
Chemical

155mm Arty shells with mustard gas. -Page 53
70 000 produced (that is 155mm shells actually filled with mustard gas).

“more than 54 000” used in the war against Iran.

13 500 remaining before the Gulf war.

550 shells “missing”.

Regarding the missing 550 Mustard gas filled 155mm projectiles, UNMOVIC has been unable to resolve the status of these items and remains concerned due to their probable mitlitary utility.

122mm Rocket shells with nerve agents –page 56
“In excess of 36 000” produced or purchased

“tens of thousands” used in war against Iran.

14 000 destroyed by UNSCOM

26 000 destroyed unilaterally by Iraq (according to Iraq)

UNSCOM found evidence supporting some of the  Iraqs claims it was impossible to estimate the numbers destroyed due to the circumstances of the destruction.

UNMOVIC found 12 empty such rockets in January 2003.

Is it just me or does that math look funny.

TABUN
In 1996 Iraq declared that it had produced 210 tonnes of Tabun. 140 tonnes had been weaponized, some had been used against Iran. Iraq further declared that it had unilaterally destroyed 30 tonnes. UNSCOM supervised the destruction of 40 tonnes of Tabun which it determined had a 30% purity. However UNSCOM could not verify Iraqs declarations concerning the production, weaponization, consumption and unilateral destruction of Tabun.

(Yes boys and girls, we have to take the Iraqis words for it)

But it gets better. Iraq declared that it had produced Tabun from sodium cyanide (NaCN) (and some other stuff I cant be bothered to type now). With respect to NaCN, 191 tonnes cannot be physically accounted for. Iraq explained that this may have been due to an order not completely filled by the supplier.

MUSTARD GAS (Apart from the 550 shells mentioned previously) –Page 77
450 aerial bombs filled with mustard gas cannot be accounted for. So that means 550 shells and 450 bombs, totalling roughly 80 tonnes of mustard gas.

However based on a document recently recieved from Iraq, this quantity could be substantially higher.

The “air force document” recently recieved by UNMOVIC introduces additional uncertainty in accounting as it indicates that 6 526 fewer aerial CW bombs had been consumed during the Iran-Iraq war. This woiuld mean that approximately 1000 tonnes fo agent (predominantly mustard, but also sarin and tabun) had not been consumated as previously thought. Iraq has explained that the Air force document is wrong. Records of the missing bombs were located at airfields that was occupied in 1991 and all the records were destroyed. UNMOVIC is investigating.

Offline Hortlund

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The Case against Iraq using only UNMOVICS report
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2003, 02:57:18 PM »
Oh, and Im only presenting the smoking guns here. Since the report is on a .pdf file, I have to type all this for hand... There is alot of other stuff that I'm not writing down because I either dont understand it (VX) or because I dont want to get caught debating pointless semantics or burdens of evidence.

Offline Curval

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The Case against Iraq using only UNMOVICS report
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2003, 03:04:05 PM »
I'm just wondering why we have to hear this from Hortlund...why didn't Bush mention these figures in his latest address...or Powell for that matter.

I can only assume they figured we could read it for ourselves.
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Offline straffo

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The Case against Iraq using only UNMOVICS report
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2003, 03:08:25 PM »
(short version) VX is an "advanced" version of Sarin gaz it's a neurotoxic.

You don't have NBC course in swedish army ???

Offline Hortlund

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The Case against Iraq using only UNMOVICS report
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2003, 03:44:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
(short version) VX is an "advanced" version of Sarin gaz it's a neurotoxic.

You don't have NBC course in swedish army ???


Straffo, I know what VX is. I just didnt understand much of the UNMOVIC report on primers and various methods of manufacturing VX. It said something about 1 to 8 weeks to manufacture the stuff if they had the right primers and used "method D" or something like that...and the necessary primers are "missing" as in we know they had them, but we cant prove they have them now.

Offline straffo

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The Case against Iraq using only UNMOVICS report
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2003, 03:49:49 PM »
ok ,have a good lecture.

I downloaded the file but didn't have the courage to go past the first 10 pages .

How do you interpret the title of the document  : "UNMOVIC Working document" ?

« Last Edit: March 10, 2003, 03:52:46 PM by straffo »

Offline Sabre

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The Case against Iraq using only UNMOVICS report
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2003, 03:52:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
I'm just wondering why we have to hear this from Hortlund...why didn't Bush mention these figures in his latest address...or Powell for that matter.

I can only assume they figured we could read it for ourselves.


Well, they've been mentioning it constantly since President Bush made his initial address to the UN last October.  Powel referenced it as well in the speach he made to the UN a couple weeks ago.  He even talked specifically about how many tons/litres/etc were unaccounted for, as I recall.

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Offline Hortlund

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The Case against Iraq using only UNMOVICS report
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2003, 03:55:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
ok ,have a good lecture.

I downloaded the file but didn't have the courage to go past the first 10 pages .

How do you interpret the title of the document  : "UNMOVIC Working document" ?


Meaning that it is not the final report, but a report on how work is progressing.

Offline Saurdaukar

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The Case against Iraq using only UNMOVICS report
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2003, 05:05:22 PM »
Stop posting facts like that!!!  DOWN WITH AMERICAN IMPERIALISM!!!!  

(Some people forget who the bad guys are every now and then I guess)