Author Topic: Will Bush sacrify his best Ally?  (Read 1011 times)

Offline Ripsnort

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Will Bush sacrify his best Ally?
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2003, 02:51:00 PM »
My post was merely a gentle stick poke, Straffo! No world conflict or nations can part the friendship of an online friend! :)

Offline Charon

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Will Bush sacrify his best Ally?
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2003, 03:04:17 PM »
Lefitsts like David Hackworth Rip?
http://www.newsday.com/news/columnists/ny-nyhen243101485jan24,0,5355570.column

Quote
As he travels across the country, Hackworth told me, the vast majority of military veterans he meets see this war as a rotten idea.

"They've been there," he said. "They know war is not a blood sport, as cable news make it out to be. Cheney and Bush and Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld - they've never stood and faced the elephant. These are the people who gush for war."

But don't expect the generals and the admirals to raise their own private doubts.

"Through the long eight-year bloodbath of Vietnam, not one general sounded off and said, 'Bad war, can't win it, let's get out.' They went along to get along. It's true again. The top generals are head-shakers."


Anybody on this board counts as a popsicle compared to Hack, but he doesn't seem to think it’s a good idea. Hey, you mean the most decorated living soldier can be against the war and not be some hippy freaknik? "Of all the medals that have been pinned to his uniform, it's the Combat Infantryman's Badge he's proudest of."

Or General Zinni and Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., who served in combat in Vietnam

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2002/10/17/zinni/

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/2002-09-16-oplede_x.htm

(good coverage of the Chickenhawk factor as well)

Quote
In an address recently in Florida, he warned his audience to watch out for the administration's civilian superhawks, most of whom avoided military service as best they could. "If you ask me my opinion," said Zinni, referring to Iraq, "Gen. (Brent) Scowcroft, Gen. (Colin) Powell, Gen. (Norman) Schwarzkopf and Gen. Zinni maybe all see this the same way. It might be interesting to wonder why all of the generals see it the same way, and all those (who) never fired a shot in anger (and) are really hellbent to go to war see it a different way.


Or

Gen. Wesley Clark, a former NATO military commander.

Quote
"If we go in unilaterally, or without the full weight of international organizations behind us, if we go in with a very sparse number of allies, if we go in without an effective information operation ... we're liable to supercharge recruiting for al-Qaida," Clark said.


Paint it as a leftist deal if it makes you sleep better, but in reality a lot of people have some serious issues with how this is transpiring, who is calling the shots, the reality of why this is happening, the competence and motivation of the doctrine’s developers (Wolfowitz, Pearl, Rumsfeld, etc.) and what it will cost both immediately and in the years to come, both in blood and in gold and world opinion. But again, I suppose Hackworth and Zinni are just some anti-American malcontents so we should just dismiss what they have to say.

Charon
« Last Edit: March 11, 2003, 03:10:53 PM by Charon »

Offline Hristo

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Will Bush sacrify his best Ally?
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2003, 03:09:16 PM »
The inspectors didn't find anything.

After the invasion, it will be all to easy for US to frame Saddam - from breeding nuclear was elephants to turtle ICBM fart gas submarines.

Offline Ripsnort

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Will Bush sacrify his best Ally?
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2003, 03:09:27 PM »
May 15th, 2003, when Iraqi civilians are treating the US infantry to home made food, and wine..this OT board won't have many liberals like yourself posting, Charon. ;)

Offline Ripsnort

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Will Bush sacrify his best Ally?
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2003, 03:10:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hristo
The inspectors didn't find anything.

After the invasion, it will be all to easy for US to frame Saddam - from breeding nuclear was elephants to turtle ICBM fart gas submarines.


Ah,, pre-emptive excuses for being wrong already arising I see!~

Offline straffo

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Will Bush sacrify his best Ally?
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2003, 03:13:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
My post was merely a gentle stick poke, Straffo! No world conflict or nations can part the friendship of an online friend! :)

!

I'm pleased to read that as somtime I've nasty the tendancy to ... eeekk I don't know an english expression .. "put all the people in the same basket" (mettre tout le monde dans le même panier).

Offline Saurdaukar

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Will Bush sacrify his best Ally?
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2003, 03:16:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
My post was merely a gentle stick poke, Straffo! No world conflict or nations can part the friendship of an online friend! :)


 Am I the only one that finds this rather humorous?  :D

Offline Dowding

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Will Bush sacrify his best Ally?
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2003, 03:20:18 PM »
So we now add Blair and the UK to the list of 'irrelevances'?

The UK? Irrelevant.

Tony Blair? Irrelevant.

NATO? Irrelevant.

The UN? Irrelevant.

Blix? Irrelevant.

So, Beetle, what were you saying about that 'Special Relationship'...?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2003, 03:22:24 PM by Dowding »
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Hristo

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Will Bush sacrify his best Ally?
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2003, 03:23:22 PM »
Rip, too much warmongering reminds me of what happened here 12 yrs ago. Bush is acting in much the same way as Milosevic did.

Anti Bush = Anti American. Enemy is no human. Their religion is evil.

So far UN has inspectors there. They don't find anything. You say US shouldn't trust the UN and deal what it thinks is justice ? With so much warmongering, will it be right ?

Bush is man who will stop at nothing. We just need a Gleiwitz radio station somewhere in Saudi Arabia and there you go.

The inspectors I trust. Bush - I don't.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2003, 03:26:09 PM by Hristo »

Offline Charon

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Will Bush sacrify his best Ally?
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2003, 03:23:52 PM »
I'll be very happy to post, particularly when it's all over. I'm sure even liberals like Zinni and Hackworth (both more attuned to my liberal beliefs than say, Weazel) will be happy too. Hopefully that will be some time before 2010, with minimal casualties, economic costs and with the bright shining light of regional stability which is the main focus for the war and has been since the current Iraqi policy was being developed by Bush's senior advisors back in the 1990s. Of course, the families of the war dead will be none too happy, particularly if the war, as sold, doesn't live up to the press releases.

[edit: I absolutely hope for the best. Hussein is in breach, hard to really argue the point, so the action is technically justified. However, I think the whole end-game scenario is a bit of a coin flip, and by going it alone (largely, in the important ways) we have the most to gain but also the most to lose if the long term perspective falls short.

I also do not believe the war is being fought for the main reason being used to sell it - a direct threat to US cities from Hussein's WMD. However, in the future this might be an issue as leverage against the US over Hussein's actions in the Middle East (though Israel, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia are by far more obvious targets). Nor does his cruelty seem to be all that important, since there will be no Nurmeburg if he just decides to leave with his millions. This typical "selling" irritates me the most, frankly. Same old same old, only on this issue people are going to die and be killed in our names.

Frankly, I can see the potential need for action based on the white papers developed by current senior Bush staffers like Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz back in the 1990s. A friendly Iraq would act as a counter to a shaky Saudi Arabia and stabilize the world energy markets to a greater extent. However, this strikes me as a bit too much like our "creation" of Panama or the justification for the Spanish American War for me to be comfortable. What's more, people who think the worst, that it is greed motivated, cannot be dismissed either. Just as France will be a big loser, there is no question that the supporters will be major winners where production and infrastructure issues are concerned. IMO the greed aspect isn't enough to motivate, but there are people close to the administration who will reap these "ancillary" benefits.

And again, we have to see if this will be a short war (likely) and short occupation, and not a decade long Beruit-like occupation with continual terrorist attacks. Hopefully, once the Iraqis get a taste of a Big Mac and see Baywatch reruns on the dish Democracy will stick like glue and serve as a shining example throughout the region. I really hope for the best.]

Charon
« Last Edit: March 11, 2003, 08:06:54 PM by Charon »

Offline blitz

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Will Bush sacrify his best Ally?
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2003, 04:44:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by gofaster
Should've finished the job 10 years ago.



 Right


 Regards Blitz

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Will Bush sacrify his best Ally?
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2003, 04:52:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by blitz
Right


 Regards Blitz



But the UN was against invading Iraq and deposing Hussein 10 years ago just kike today...

Stop your bullsshit blits its obvious the only position you hold is that the USA is wrong in whatever it's actally doing at the moment or did in the past.

You of course will deny this and try to lie your way out of it but it will only make you look even more idiotic and next you'll be telling us about scorpion bites you recieved in the desert while your uncle was shooting down F16s for the KGB in the vietnam war....

Offline blitz

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Will Bush sacrify his best Ally?
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2003, 04:54:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund


I dont think I'll ever understand why you put a smiley in there.

 [/B]


Can't help you if ya don't know the difference between a smiley and a sarcastic symbol.

Paul Wolferiz and Donald Rumsfelds neoconservative strategy of 1 nations rules the world outa the late 80thies may cause serious damage  to Nato, friendship between America and Europe, UN and maybe relationship between America and UK.

That's why i put this :D in.


Regards Blitz

Offline blitz

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Will Bush sacrify his best Ally?
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2003, 04:58:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Blair's political career is done anyway.  Bush wont be reelected either.  

But in 10 years, the conflict in Iraq will be seen as the right action at the right time.  Both men realize this.



But sold very , very poor.......


Regards Blitz

Offline blitz

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Will Bush sacrify his best Ally?
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2003, 05:01:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
But the UN was against invading Iraq and deposing Hussein 10 years ago just kike today...

Stop your bullsshit blits its obvious the only position you hold is that the USA is wrong in whatever it's actally doing at the moment or did in the past.

You of course will deny this and try to lie your way out of it but it will only make you look even more idiotic and next you'll be telling us about scorpion bites you recieved in the desert while your uncle was shooting down F16s for the KGB in the vietnam war....



 :D


Regards Blitz