United Kingdom might back out.

[10Bears]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/24/iraq/main541815.shtml

(CBS) Sources tell CBS News that Great Britain – America's closest ally – may find it politically impossible to commit its military to a U.S.-led attack on Saddam Hussein. And that could force the United States to go it alone in Iraq.

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld hinted as much Tuesday.

"To the extent that they are able to participate that would obviously be welcomed. To the extent they are not, well, there are workarounds," Rumsfeld said.

War in Iraq is now supported by fewer than 20 percent of Britons, and Prime Minister Tony Blair has told Washington he needs U.N. authorization, reports CBS News Correspondent Bill Plante.

Go get em Rummy.. You sayin’ you don’t need the British as an ally?.. Oh that will go over real good.
"Candidly, I have gotten somewhat nervous at some of the
pronouncements Rumsfeld has made. When he makes his comments, it
appears that he disregards the Army. He gives the perception when he's on TV that he is the guy driving the train and everybody else better fall in line behind him -- or else. It's scary, okay? Let's face it:
There are guys at the Pentagon who have been involved in operational planning for their entire lives, okay? . . . And for this wisdom, acquired during many operations, wars, schools, for that just to be ignored, and in its place have somebody who doesn't have any of that training, is of concern."

-- Norman Schwarzkopf

Woo Hoo.. let the Brit bashing begin!... I never much liked kidney pie..
But there’s more... listen to what Bushdaddy said

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-605441,00.html

THE first President Bush has told his son that hopes of peace in the Middle East would be ruined if a war with Iraq were not backed by international unity.
Drawing on his own experiences before and after the 1991 Gulf War, Mr Bush Sr said that the brief flowering of hope for Arab-Israeli relations a decade ago would never have happened if America had ignored the will of the United Nations

Hey I thought there was a tradition ex presidents don’t bash the current administration especially if the former president is his FATHER

Ya know I backed out of a bet with Toad that the United States would go completely insane and attack anyway.. I might’ve won that bet that no, calmer heads would prevail.

[Vulcan]

I'm beginning to think Saddam has won the war of nerves.

[akak]

The U.S. and U.K. only need a de facto UN backing for the invasion of Iraq.  Even if France vetos the resolution, as long as the U.S. and U.K. have a majority of the Security Council members vote yes, then that gives them de facto approval for the invasion.  The U.S. and U.K. can then claim that they did indeed have the backing of the U.N., despite a veto from France.


Ack-Ack

[Dowding]

I'm beginning to think Saddam has won the war of nerves.

Maybe. He has out-manouevered an administration that has a piss-poor ability to play the diplomatic game and has benefitted hugely from the splits amongst the Western democracies. This whole thing should have been a done deal, before it even started rolling.

Blair has been put in an impossible position and he's in very hot water politically. And you know what? The US probably couldn't give a toejam. So much for that 'special relationship'.

Now let's see what we've achieved over the last 6 months:

1) Massive trans-atlantic splits between nations who should be working together

2) Large splits within the EU and with former SU republics

3) A Saddam Hussein who has gained reluctant support from those pretty much despise him

4) A pissing away of the anti-terrorist sentiment and unity post-911

"The Art of Diplomacy is letting people have your own way."

It's a shame that maxim wasn't given more regard. The bulldozer has no place in these affairs. While this mess certainly isn't the sole responsibility of the US, was a compromise such a difficult thing to achieve?

[Hortlund]

France & Germany are the bad guys here, remember.
And do remember their motivation...
France=Money and oil
Germany=Public opinion benefits for the sitting government

[ET]

France and Germany don't want us getting our hands on the paperwork in Baghad that will show what kind of things they have been selling to Iraq since the embargo.

[crabofix]

Originally posted by Hortlund
France & Germany are the bad guys here, remember.
And do remember their motivation...
France=Money and oil
Germany=Public opinion benefits for the sitting government

I have read some of your stuff and I cant hold myself from saying it: You are a total idiot, I am amazed that you know how to breath.

Crabofix

BORK, BORK, BORK

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by crabofix
I have read some of your stuff and I cant hold myself from saying it: You are a total idiot, I am amazed that you know how to breath.

And you manage to show your eloquence in your first post. I mean why say something on the actual subject instead of diving in head first with personal attacks.

Trying to fit in huh?

[Duedel]

Uhm i guess its not only France and Germany. At the moment there are many more countries that dont want a war NOW.

The funny part is that the German government is acting like their citizens want them to act - if its wrong or right doesnt matter cause the majority decides in a democracy.

U can start ur bashing about the dumb german morons and Saddam supporters now...

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Duedel
Uhm i guess its not only France and Germany. At the moment there are many more countries that dont want a war NOW.

The funny part is that the German government is acting like their citizens want them to act - if its wrong or right doesnt matter cause the majority decides in a democracy.

That is not the way a democracy works. Democracy as we have it now works in another way. I vote for the guy I think will do the best job of running the country for the next 4 years. That means I think that whatever happens between this election and the next election, he is the guy to tackle those problems. Basically I trust him with getting the job done, I trust him with looking out for my country.

First:
You are talking about opinion polls. Do you have any idea how easy it is to get the results you want by formulating the questions in an opinion poll?

I guarantee that I could formulate a question in an opinion poll that would indicate that 80-90% of the population in France would support a war without UN sanction against Iraq.

Second:
You are talking about public opinion. That is, alot of people who get their information on the Iraq issue from one or two news sources. This news reporting is NEVER objective. Something I think we all know, because when we argue over issues like this on an internet BB we tend to get insights into other countries news reporting. If you would compare CNN to (insert some French news agency here) you would note that even though they are reporting the same thing, they are spinning it in different directions.

The public can never be informed enough to form a reasonable and well balanced opinion. Public opinion will always be at the mercy of the media. A media that cannot be completely trusted to deliver an objective report of the truth.

Also, the only way to examine what the public opinion really is, is through national elections. You simply cannot trust an opinion poll to give you a truthful image of the public opinion.

Only the government of your nation can be trusted to make an informed desicion on your nations security policy. This is based on this very simple notion.

Your government will always have more information on any given security issue than you. Your government has thousands of guys working with national security, constantly gathering information, analyzing information and making assessments. They know stuff you have no idea about. Because YOU get all your information from the media. Media is biased.

[Martlet]

So they back out?  Your point?

They have their policies, we have ours.  While the U.S. appreciates sharing the burden of ridding the world of psychos,  assistance is not neccessary.

A little appreciation on occaision would be nice, though.

[Defiance]

Hiya's,
Money revolves this world and favours are abound
This is politics

Here in the UK we have some serious undercover open-all-the-can-of-worms and be done with it documentaries
Best example is Panorama

A real great no-holds-barred docu company

Now to give you an idea of the politics and underhand/illegal sleeze some certain countries well country will do here's an example

A nationalised petro-checmical company (smurfs ring a bell here)
Was run and governed by hmm politicians

But as it was propped up by taxpayers and EU contributions he he

This was thought to be "their moneybank" so they would dip into it's funding and have a nice lavvish lifestyle ohh and also of course they had to provide for their mistresses so this and other underhand dealing caused a large amount of "monies" to hmm well be used for none petro-chemical stuff

Of course this "only" can happen in this industry !!!

By gawd it can't happen on wmd parts surely !  

Waiting for great docu's to comeout well after middle east is at a more "safe" state  

Then we will be able to see who did what and why and maybe see if yet again "money" played a part on certain countries efforts

[Defiance]

OOPS,

UK at last mori poll i saw was 72 or 75% in favour of action IF it would remove the current regime and made life easier for the average iraqi

A poll i did see don't think it was a mori but went like this

70% against action in iraq without UN sanction

Now to add to confusion another poll was

If the UK suffered a terrorist attack alike the 9/11 would you support action in the middle east if a country could be linked to terror
81% said yeah

Now it seems polls do 2 things to me

shows hardliners for/against
But when it happens (say a terror attack) this suddenly changes the not in my back yard i am ok jack'ers into action people


And people need to think about this

OK so they can't "find" any wmd's but hell have you seen footage and read about n seen ex-generals that defected talk/explain how things were/are hid

If you had a line of millions of peops walk across a country with some methods that seem to be used in concealing stuff you would still never find stuff

This worlds goin down "the tubes" fast, and with certain idiots possessing and hoping to possess wmd's can't some people get to grips with sometime in the future things will get lots worse if left as they are at this moment in time
Maybe your little part of this globe won't be effected today/tomorrow or next year but don't expect it to all be rosey in decades to come if left unchecked

The world never looks back .............

Nazi'ism spl ?  led to appauling deaths
World vowed never to allow this to happen again

Few decades ago
The balcans led to appauling deaths
World vowed never to allow this to happen again

Places in africa not long ago
Led to appauling deaths
World vowed never to allow this to happen again

Now we have a chance or may of missed it, To never allow it to carry-on in the middle east

World will never allow this to happen

Hindsight is great

But not if ones blind at looking back

As for Blair i can't stand his politics but i do admire what he is and trying to do

He has vision and as so many people don't for one reason or another they can't see that he is looking well into the future and at this moment it's looking bleak

Anyways he is dead politicaly but i admire him for his stance, and not for standing with our main friend the USA but for actually being a dork politician that has convictions and seems to realise what toejam the future left unchecked can bring

As for losing UK forces who knows

Did'nt america in wwi and wwii allow it's forces to "volunteer" ?

I wouldn't think it would come to this anyways though blairs a dead un

Someway you can bet ya last $ and life savings the UK will be somewhere with usa and from what i can grasp from polls and listening to chats it's the same underlying trend

Medicine tastes aweful mainly, We all take a swig and feel better afterwards
Time for the worlds decent community to take a bitter pill swig and feel better later on

anyways need a drink end of rant  

[Ripsnort]

I think 70% of Americans in a latest poll showed support for action with UN backing (Including me).  If we don't get it, we most likely won't go in me thinks and will turn to more extentions, resolutions and the anti-war folks will continue a life of freedom, democracy while the Iraqi people continue to live under a dictorial threat.  So what? This might as well be 1939 all over again as far as Isolationism goes...remember the majority of US did NOT want to get involved in war as well.

And as much as 10bears thinks that Rummy is a warmonger, let me quote him from yesterday:

".
       “The goal is to not have a war,” he said. “The goal is to have the pressure be so great that Saddam Hussein cooperates. Short of that ... the goal is to have the capabilities of the coalition so clear and so obvious that there is an enormous disincentive for the Iraqi military to fight against the coalition and there’s an enormous incentive for Saddam Hussein to leave and spare the world a conflict.”

[Masherbrum]

I say assassinate the son-of-a-squeak using a strike team.   It is a toejamload better than higher casulties.  I think this could lead to a war that the US, won't want to be in.  

Karaya2