ISDN, DSL, cable Modem quandry

[bowser]

Like somebody in this thread stated earlier, somewhere along the way, you are going to share bandwidth..but it's at the local loop where this can be a real problem.  That's because it's typically the link with the lowest bandwidth.  With cable, obviously if all or most of the bandwidth is used up on your local hub by other users, you're going to have problems (Wobble, better do a little more research on the subject).  Also, some cable companies have completely oversold their networks, so the local loop is not the only problem...@Home for example.  
For several months I had both cable and DSL.  At peak performance, the cable had much faster download speeds then DSL, I could get up to 2MB/s, but these times were rare, especially at night and weekends when more users were on my local hub.  With DSL, although the speed is lower, I get 800 kbps, it's rock solid, constant.  So on average, the DSL was faster.
However, remember every ISP is different.  In your area it may be a completely differnet story.

bowser

[Ghosth]

Well I switched from a dedicated data line (at 25$ US a month) and a pair of USRobotics 56k modems to DSL service through USWest (now Qwest).

Because DSL can be used over the same phone line that you use for voice I was able to drop a phone line. Hence the switch to broadband cost me the modem & 5$ a month.

I'm getting 256k up & 640k down and it is VERY stable most of the time. Plus it was a snap to setup so that all three of our puters shared one connection. Even when my wife is downloading MP3's from napster & my daughter is surfing & talking to friends via icq I still experience no problems connecting to HTC.

[TheWobble]

Bowser I do this for a living I sell the equiptment to companies and consult them on its application, I know what i am saying.
DSL provided by an ISP is usually risky because the generally are more stingy and want to get more range with the equptment they buy, however DSL from a phone company (swbell here) is usually much more stable because they do not depend on it as a moneymaker and can splurge more and not be so hellbent of jamming as many people on as little equiptment as possible, basically what it boils down to is 3 things.

1. how greedy the ISP is going to be with upgrading and setting user limits.
2. how well the city has set up and maintained the proper lines and equiptment.
3. how quickly the ISP will acknowledge problems and bandwith shortages and move to correct them.

the city maintained lines and such you just have to have luck but the other 2 you can watch and see which way to go.



[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 01-14-2001).]

[SKurj]

DSL is a gamers connect IMO, been on cable for 4 years, and suffered alot of instabilities over the years. (This in several locations across Canada)
For strictly gaming, i'd recommend DSL, with cable and ISDN close second.  ISDN is expensive and offers lower download speed, however it does offer good stability.

Cable offers the highest download speeds, which doesn't mean much ingame.

AKskurj

[Tac]

I've had both.

DSL is faster but it is a REAL PAIN IN THE BUTT. It is annoying to install, if you have ever have any problems with windows itself you basically have to reinstall the damn DSL from scratch or it wont work.

Connection in DSL suffers from a LOT of problems from the company. Almost all the time they expand the dsl system you get disconnected for a day or two. You also have to be close to the node to get a decent connect.

Cable on the other hand is very reliable, very easy to install and maintain, cheaper, almost as fast as the DSL (heck, downloading 64 megs in less than 4 minutes is CERTAINLY good enough for me AND my gaming). That you share the bandwith is true, but you have to see what neighborhood you live in. If you are in an apartment complex and every one of your neighbors is a pc geek like you in need of cable modem you pretty much screwed at high-time (when people come back from work).

In all, I prefer the CABLE over the DSL a thousand times.

[Mayhem]

My Cablemodem is typicaLLY better then the local DSL offerings.

Ive been able to download at 2.1 mbps (fastest ive ever gotten) and upload at 1.2mbps thats both faster then dsl. however my Download and uploads speeds fluctiate like and with the weither. ive gone as low as 500kbps and as high as 2.1mbps. my lag is low ussually sub 10ms with a less then 2ms veriance. My connection is always on and I don't to turn my Nic into a dial up (PPPOE). I've worked for @home and I use roadrunner. Ive also worked on networks (Setting them up for WAN) that had DSL. IT's hit and miss with both with no garantese. ive seen people get good solid awsome connects with dsl and ive seen people get them with cable. I will say one thing for sure avoid any dsl or cable modem that turns you're NIC into a dail up (PPPOE) they can time you out or bump you off and reshuffle you're IP.  

------------------
Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"

[RebootSequence]

Yes avoid PPPOE like the PLAUGE
If you have that you'd do better on a 56k as it will tend to disconnect you every 10 minutes.
Actually, the same general rule applies to SWBell.  They operate with complete comtempt for the customer and even if you get someone nice on the line they can't help you and you need to talk to six other people at which point someone says they will call you back and they never do.
If you must get DSL pay the extra for the enhanced that has a static IP and no PPPOE.
You also will need to get cable first to tide you over for the six months it takes them to install the DSL.

[This message has been edited by RebootSequence (edited 01-14-2001).]

[Dingy]

Well I play on a cable connect and used to have alot of problems until my cable company upgraded their backbone from coax to fiber.  When the backbone was all analog, my pings would vary from 100ms to 1024ms with a packetloss sometimes as high as 40%.

Once they upgraded to a fiber backbone, however, my pings to HTC stabilized around 80ms with 0% packetloss. As I understand it, RoadRunner PLANS (does not mean they will) to upgrade all their subnets with fiber but this is a long and costly process.  

As should be obvious by now, there is no clear cut decision to use cable over DSL or vice versa.  Even within providers, you will find drastic variances in performance dependent upon location.  The best way to make this decision for yourself is to talk to people in your area who have used those technolgies and to base your decision on their input.

-Ding

[MrBill]

anyone have any info on this???
 http://www.starband.com/

snipets

"StarBand uses a single satellite dish antenna for receiving AND for sending information - no telephone connection is needed."
"StarBand service features 'always-on' Internet access, with no wait to reconnect every time you want to surf the Web or check e-mail."
StarBand consumers can expect download speeds up to 500 kbps and upload speeds up to 150 kbps. And, your speed can burst even higher depending on when you are online."

  In northern NM they pick up our internet packets and deliver them to Phoenix AZ by pony express then someone has to type the data into the backbone there

------------------
OhNooo
smile awhile

[SKurj]

Stay away from satellite!!

LOS systems (microwave much like cellular) may work ok, but actual satellite service carries HIGH LATENCY with it.
The signal has to travel a long way, that takes time, which results in High ping.  You may get great download speed and good surfing, but when u hit that mouse button the signal goes up to the satellite maybe thousands of miles away, then back down to earth, to the server, then back up to the satellite, and back down to you.  I'd imagine pings of 1000ms won't be uncommon.

AKskurj

[TheWobble]

yep, satellites are great for Dl'ing but you might aswell be using a dialup 9600 for games.

[Hajo]

Thanks Gents!

Looks likes the consensus is basically what works best in the area in which one lives.  I'll give DSL and Cable a shot.  I will totally disregard an ISDN line.

Thanks!  <<S>>
Cya up

[Skuzzy]

Well, as an ISP, I will offer the following.

The question about what works best for the last mile (your local connect) of the Internet connection is a question that has no absolute answer.

Many variables are involved.  Understanding those variables will go a long way to helping you make the correct decision as to what is best for you.

When trying to decide between Cable or DSl for your service, ask the floowing questions:

1)  Is the IP address a 10.x.x.x address?  If yes, then avoid the ISP, if you can.  Why?  10.x.x.x addresses are not routable over the Internet, which simply means the ISP is using a proxy server to handle all your Internet requests.  Proxy servers are computers that do slow down as more users attach to the Internet.

2)  Does the ISP require you to use PPPOE (PPP over Ethernet)?  If yes, then run don't walk away from that ISP.  There are many problems with using this software for Internet connections.

3)  Does the ISP use DHCP for assigning IP addresses?  If so, what is the lease time of the IP Address?  When the lease time expires, your connection will be reset and a new IP address is assigned.  This is fine for browsing the Internet as the reassignment can take aonly a few seconds, at most, but will crash any real-time program immediately.

4)  Does the ISP use NAT (Network Address Translation)?  This may be used in conjuction with a 10.x.x.x address.  Avoid this as UDP packet problems will occur with NAT.

5)  In the case of Cable:  How many homes are on my node?  In the case of DSL:  How many users per T1 amount of traffic are on my connection?  This will give you an idea of the potential bandwidth sharing issue you could have.  For cable modem, they should not have more than 50 homes per node.  This will give the best overall performance and reduce congestion related problems.
For DSL/T1, the ISP should not be going over 30 clients for the same reasons.

6)  Does the ISP cap the bandwidth available to you?  If so, what are the caps (download and upload)?  This is somewhat subjective.  If you do not feel the caps will impair your ability to accomplish what you want to accomplish over the Internet, then go for it.


Both types of connections have pluses and minuses and what works best for you may not work for others.
All WEB/FTP traffic for Cable users are served via caching servers on the local network for the cable ISP.  This allows very fast downloads at the expense of serving stale content from time to time.  This operates completely transparent to the user and cannot be avoided.
More and more DSL ISP's are using caching servers as well.  So this issue is becoming moot.
ISP's are discovering that clients do not care if the content is stale, as long as it is fast.

As far as reliabilty goes, the telphone network will always be potentially more reliable than the cable network.  Why?  The cable network is made up on one cable carrying traffic from your ISP to you.  A physical cut anywhere in that cable will bring down the entire node.  
The telephone network has many different paths to your home and can switch those paths when upgrades or problems at a switch require the need to re-route.  The telephone network has many redundant cable paths in the ground which facilitate this.

There is not clear answer as to which is best.  The determining factors are; the ISP, the cable company or the telephone company.

A little research goes a long way.

------------------
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
President, AppLink Corp.
http://www.applink.net
skuzzy@applink.net

[Hajo]

Skuzzy thanks!  LOL I printed out your response so I could remember what questions to ask.  I do hope however the person to which I speak can answer them.  Usually when dealing with phone or cable cos' one talks with a sales rep, and techs are hard to corner most times <G>

Hajo

[Eagler]

Guess I'm spoiled. Sure cable (Roadrunner) slows down some (very little)when pipe fills up but nothing like the rest of the internet does.

With cable you are on a huge fancy network until it dumps you into the internet. Pinging inside this network should give you great speeds 99% of the time. What happens from there on out has nothing to do with your cable modem, it's everybody and there brother squeezing along and into the same sites you are trying to pull up. I'm on one of the busiest hubs Time Warner Hillsborough has going, still get great speeds both for d/l ing and AH.

Toad
Have you documented your problem and approached the cable company with it? If the problem is within your node/hub and not internet traffic, cable has to add another to lower the ratio. If they give you a hard time, call your city commissioners. Cable co GM's jump when they get calls from the city officials.
good luck

Eagler
 

[This message has been edited by Eagler (edited 01-15-2001).]