Author Topic: Iran up to something? (Read 1326 times)

Gyro/T69 · « **on:** March 13, 2003, 08:52:55 PM »

From http://www.osirp.org/

Iran and Iraq to release prisoners.

Would the Iranians join Iraq against US/UK troops if and when the war beginnings?

crabofix · « **Reply #1 on:** March 13, 2003, 08:54:18 PM »

Didnt Iraq fly some mirage planes into Iran to hide from US?
Like 40 of em?

crabofix

Gyro/T69 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 13, 2003, 08:58:42 PM »

Yup they did. Don't remember type or the amount. Seem's to me they flew anything they could get in the air to Iran.

Rasker · « **Reply #3 on:** March 13, 2003, 09:00:29 PM »

yeah, but Iran never gave them back

Actually, it was over 200. Most of the (surviving) Iraqi air f(a)rce was and is over there.

If Iraqi troops got involved, it would be to occupy the Shiite areas to the southeast of the country, and the US would tell Iran very bad things would happen to it if this were tried.

crabofix · « **Reply #4 on:** March 13, 2003, 09:01:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rasker
yeah, but Iran never gave tthem back

Not to late for that

Rasker · « **Reply #5 on:** March 13, 2003, 09:05:55 PM »

I dont think Iraq will have much use for an air force this time around. They may try fighting out of tunnels and spider holes, like the Viet Cong and the Japs on Iwo Jima/Okinawa

crabofix · « **Reply #6 on:** March 13, 2003, 09:12:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rasker
I dont think Iraq will have much use for an air force this time around. They may try fighting out of tunnels and spider holes, like the Viet Cong and the Japs on Iwo Jima/Okinawa

For sure its gonna be fought in "Urban" terrain. Dangerouse stuff and US/UK will loose some of their advantages. And a to hard bombing of citys will kill to many civilians.
It won´t be "a walk in the park", thats for sure.

Still a mass defection would end it like a "snap" with the fingers.

Hangtime · « **Reply #7 on:** March 13, 2003, 09:50:14 PM »

fantasy land.

ask yerselves 'why didn't saddam use wmd last time?"

a: because if he did the war effort would have changed from 'get iraq outta kuwait' to 'kill saddam... and level baghdad'.

now the focus of this war is 'kill saddam, level baghdad if thats what it takes'.

you can bet he'll use wmd this time... he has absolutely nothing to lose.

say 'buh-bye baghdad and takrit'.

installing a new government will be no big deal... there will be damned little left requiring a government..

Dowding · « **Reply #8 on:** March 14, 2003, 12:51:26 AM »

So you're basically saying that previously, Saddam didn't need to use WMD for fear of massive retaliation and neither could he afford to be linked to terrorist groups for the same reason. Now the US/UK is attacking him to rid him of WMD because supposedly it will inevitably fall into Bin Laden's hands, Saddam will probably use it and will pass it to Bin Laden's crew?

What a superb, well thought out policy that is.

BTW you level Baghdad and the US/UK will the sow the wind for a world-wide whirlwind. Personally, I'd be in the streets if WMD was used on civilian targets, such as Baghdad. It would be the end of the British government.

Gyro/T69 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 14, 2003, 01:29:14 AM »

"I'd be in the streets if WMD was used on civilian targets, such as Baghdad"

Will you also be out in the street if Hussein uses WMDs on Israel? Or the Kurds, as the threat was reported in UK newspapers last week?

How would you feel if Hussein hit US/UK troops with WMDs? Would he be justified in doing so?

Would Israel be justified to do the same if hit with a WMD from Iraq?

babek- · « **Reply #10 on:** March 14, 2003, 02:48:29 AM »

1st: The planes

During Desert Storm Saddam wanted to avoid the destruction of their airforce and evacuated many planes to Iran.

Iran has integrated the better of these planes, like the MiG29, the Su24 or the Mirage F1 in the IRIAF.

The rest was not used but also not given back to Iraq. And I dont think that they will give them these planes in future back.

Officially these planes are defined as a small part of reparations the Iraq has to pay for their sneak attack against Iran during the Gulf War of 1980/88.

2nd : Relationship between Iranians and Iraquis or Arabs

The Iranians consider the Arabs as their natural enemy.

Ask an iranian if he is an arab and he will feel deeply insulted.

The Iranians are from aryan race while arabs are from semite race. Always during the 2500 years old history of Iran there have been wars against the arabs.

In the 7th century the arabs conquered during their islamic conquest also Iran and destroyed the iranian Sassanid-dynasty Empire.

But in folling century while they occupated iranian territory they were not able to assimilite the Iranians. They were succesful in other old cultural nations - like in Egypt or Syria who gave up their specific language or religions and became part of the Arab EMpire.

But the iranians were succesful to protect their specific language, the Farsi, which is still spoken today.

Thats the reason why you will find in Iran more statues of the poets of this time than of great generals or kings who had conquered whole empires.

Thes poets were the men who had saved the iranian language and Omar Chayyam was right when he said that "the feather is stronger than the sword".

Also the Islam was modified by the Iranians.

Iran developed the Shiite religion of Islam, which has many elements of the old iranian religion which was used in the country before the islamic conquest.

Even the clothes the iranian mullahs are wearing today are the same style the old high-priests of the Sassanid Empire were wearing during the time before the arab conquest.

The idea that Iran would help Saddam is absurd.

But there is a great interest of the iranians to get more influence in Iraq, because it is the only nation beside Iran which has a shiite majority.

60% of the Iraquis are Shiites. Their religious leaders are in iranian exile. There is an army of shiite iraquis stationed in Iran near the iraqui southern border which waits to help their people when Saddam is eliminated or deposed.

Basra is the inofficial capital of the Shiites in Iraq and when the Saddam sunnite-military makes their propaganda parades through the streets of this city they feel like an occupation force in enemy territory.

When the USA will attack Iraq from the south they will we celebrated as liberators from the sunni/Saddam terror-regime.
It will be easy to kick out Saddams forces from Basra - the important question is, what happens in Basra after that event.

And the most important fact is, that in Iraq there are the most holy places of the Shiite religion. Kerbala is for Shiite of greater importance than Mekka or Jerusalem.

So - I dont think that Iran will help Saddam. They are waiting for the time after Saddam to get more influence with the shiites of Iraq.

straffo · « **Reply #11 on:** March 14, 2003, 03:08:49 AM »

I don't think a lot of people have heard of Xerxes Darius the Kadjar etc ...

I still don't undertand how the Shah was able to get ride of the soviet in the north of Iran after WWII.

Dowding · « **Reply #12 on:** March 14, 2003, 03:57:39 AM »

In the Bush stylee, your points are irrelevant.

Funnily enough, I live in the UK and the leaders of my government answer to me, as I am a British citizen. We are not barbarians who would indescriminately nuke Baghdad or use any other WMD on hundreds of thousands of civilians. British troops are fighting men and they take their chances; I'm sure they know that. However, I would support the use of tactical WMD against enemy military personnel IF British troops came under WMD attack first.

But the whole diddlying reason we are at odds with Saddam is because he is a genocidal maniac WHILE MY GOVERNMENT IS NOT. Therefore, I expect a better standard of conduct from my government compared to the nutcase we have such a huge problem with; it is the price we pay for considering ourselves civilised and is the price we pay for taking the moral high ground.

I would support the use of nukes against enemy cities only if the conflict was a 'total war', like WW2. And if you, for one iota of a moment, believe that the coming Iraq war is comparable to a total war of any kind, then you, my friend, are living on another planet.

Now, do you understand those points, or are there more stupid questions that need answering?

babek- · « **Reply #13 on:** March 14, 2003, 06:07:37 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by straffo
I don't think a lot of people have heard of Xerxes Darius the Kadjar etc ...

I still don't undertand how the Shah was able to get ride of the soviet in the north of Iran after WWII.

Cyrus, Kambyses, Darius, Xerxes of the Achaemenid dynasty were mighty kings like the others of the Arsakid-parthian or Sassanid dynasty.

At the same time when Frederick the Great fought his wars in the 18th century in Iran Nadir Shah conquered Afghanistan and India.

But as I said: Iran is more celebrating their poets like Chayyam, Ferdausi or Hafis than these men.
Another very good Shah was Shah Abbas, who ruled from Isfahan and made only few wars but was an excellent ruler for his people.

But I dont expect that many people know details of iranian history.

I also dont expect that people are able to understand that arabs and iranians are absolutely different and traditional enemies.

I just hope that the people who make military decisions are aware about these details.

There are three non-arab people in the Middle East : Turks, Iranians and Israelis. These 3 nations have helped each other - even when officially they declared the others for enemies.

Btw: The Iranians destroyed after WW2 the first and only kurdish republic which was built with soviet help in the soviet occupation zone in North-Iran.

It was the USA as the new ally of Iran which forced the USSR to leave iran.

Without this protection force it was no problem for the imperial iranian Army to march into the capital of the Republic Mahabad and execute all members of the kurdish parliament and their prime minister who were so stupid not to flee to the USSR.

That was the end of the Republic of Mahabad..

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #14 on:** March 14, 2003, 06:29:01 AM »

Intersting thing about Iran for me is that apparently it's where Croatians originate from way back when.

I really think it's unfortunate that we have lost the fine cultured people of that country for the last 25 years.