Author Topic: What do you want to learn? Ask from the WW2 AF veterans. (Read 974 times)

Grendel · « **on:** February 21, 2001, 12:34:00 PM »

And in my struggle to find people who have questions to WW2 airmen I keep bugging boards and asking if there is anything people would like to know. Any issues they would like more information about? Any questions? Tactics? Plane systems?

We've been pretty successful lately with meeting Finnish Air Force veterans. We have some quite active virtual pilots here in Tampere Finland area, and we just agreed with local WW2 AF veterans that we'll invite them to a restaurant, one by one, and fill them with good food and drinks at our expense. Meanwhile we will chat with them, listen stories and get to ask dozens of hard questions.

I got a nice list of questions that people have already supplied me, but I of course want more - more - more. Interesting things that you out there think we should ask from the AF veterans.

We have quite a long list of people we will meet, either here at Tampere or then at Oulu, where local veterans are very active and our guys have visited two of their meetings. Got GREAT material from those meetings. Just need guys to help in translation, so getting them to english will take some time...

These Air Force people include:

Fighter pilots who have flown between 1939 and 1945. Biplane, Fokker, Fiat G.50, Curtiss Hawk, Brewster, Me 109 and so on pilots.

Bomber pilots, gunners, navigators from Blenheims, Ju-88s, Dornier 17s....

Recon people, mechanics and so on.

People who fought in our one, two or three wars between 39-45, against Soviet Union or Germany.

So, guys - what do you want to know? Help me grow my list of interesting subjects I should bring up - and get on paper, tape, video or something - and then later to Internet.

Shoot!

If you want to see what we did last time, read about the visit of three WW2 pilots in the latest finnish virtual pilots convention, Urban Blitz 2001: http://www.compart.fi/icebreakers/WW2History-Blitz01.html

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Brewster into WB!

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RAM · « **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2001, 03:08:00 PM »

Did they use trim during combat, or they flew the plane with the trim as it was when they entered a fight?

Wich were the usual firing ranges for them?

Did they found the 7.92mm in the 109G2 useful for any purpose other than aim the cannon? and now we are at that...did they use the MGs to aim? Or were the ballistics too different for that purpose?

Did they like the 109G6 over the G2, or the inverse?. Was the loss of maneouverability that bad? (I understand that finnish G6s were the standards one with DB605A engine, like the one we have at AH).

and...of course...

Was the Brewster Buffalo as good as Camo claims it to be?

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 02-21-2001).]

Jimdandy · « **Reply #2 on:** February 21, 2001, 03:29:00 PM »

Stories! I love stories.

What is the single event in combat that they will never forget, that stands out the most in their memory.

Grendel · « **Reply #3 on:** February 21, 2001, 04:30:00 PM »

Good stuff. Keep it coming.

Ram,

Of course it was. 32:1 kill ratio 1941-1945 talks for itself? ;-)

I'll let others speak for this one <g> :

Brewster kills by finnish aces
http://www.hkkk.fi/~yrjola/war/faf/brewkills.html

Brewster information & statistics
http://www.sci.fi/~ambush/faf/brewster.html

Brewsters to Finland - article tell about Brewster's history and introcution into FAF
http://www.saunalahti.fi/~fta/BWtoFAF1.htm

Fighter tactics, how for example the BWs were used
http://www.saunalahti.fi/~fta/fintac-5.htm

Those are good for starters ;-)

BW were the kings - or Sky Pearls, as they were called - around here until 1943, when the latest Soviet types began surpassing it, but yet they were (had to be) used until 45.

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Brewster into WB!

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Seeker · « **Reply #4 on:** February 21, 2001, 07:43:00 PM »

How do I link to this thread? It was a thread similar to this that brought me to AH; and now I'd like to do the same for others?

Grendel · « **Reply #5 on:** February 22, 2001, 05:23:00 PM »

I am processing another interview currently. I translated one story told by Esko Tervo, Dornier Do 17 gunner/radio operator from Finnish Air Force. A little preview what kidn of material is coming. Fast, unedited, uncorrected rough translation.
Esko Tervo and the last flight of a Dornier 17

It was like any normal trip. Kind of nervous skies. 11th june 1944. Ruskies started coming over the Rajajoki-river (border river) and it wasn't very good flying weather. We were ordered to bomb from 400 meters altitude. Target was tank columns in the road. Intelligence said there was 30 kilometers long tank column coming. So we sent up everything that could carry a bomb. Six Dorniers took up. One returned without going to the target.

We were hit after Kivennapa, as there was no clear front lines. Some forces were making counter attack, some were retreating, some were in reserve and didn't just had a clue. We were hit into fuel tank. The cockpit walls broke quite fast and burning gasoline started pouring inside. Most likely it was a 40mm AA gun but I am not sure. If it had been 20mm then there would have so much shooting that all wouldn't have hit, and we would have seen the tracers.

So, happened that I was in the underside gunner's position. Guys jumped from the top hatch - and the wall of fire turned upwards so I couldn't anymore go there. We tried to open the bottom hatch with the bombardier but it was stuck. He pulled the forced release level while I was jumping on the hatch. So I just dropped out of the plane when the bottom gondole came off.

But the bombardier didn't follow. Could be that the open bottom hatch turned the wall of fire downwards - and he was burned. Burning gasoline pouring in - no much chances… And the plane came down in a ball of fire.

I still had enough senses left to extinguys the fires from me and then opened the chute. And then I thought that I might not die now after all.

It seems that the plane turned into climb when the pilot jumped. While hanging in the chute I watched how one of the guys was lower and the plane turned upside down and went down. I wondered why the guy is twisting in the chute, flexing his legs. Did his chute have a hole? No - the neighbours were shooting a lot from downwards, and he was hit at his ass.

When we landed, there were long whitewoods and we both ended hanging at with, in our chutes. I managed to get down and helped the other guy off the tree. I took him in my back and started running. I ran as long as I could and when I couldn't continue anymore I crawled under a whitewood and dragged the other guy into hiding as well. I then tried to bandage him tearing pieces of my shirt, but he said "no, dont tear the shirt, it is army's property."

So we took some breath and listened what is happening. Then we heard strange sounding talking. Ruskies! Peeked out. They were walking in a long line, searching. Passed us without noticing. But something was strange at them. And they were Finns after all, just Swedish talking. They took us to the first aid station behind our lines, and I called my unit I'm ok, and started getting my way back to base.

I wasn't hurt, just face was burned.

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Brewster into WB!

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Staga · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2001, 03:18:00 AM »

Seeker click address bar and when it turns to white text in grey background right-click it, select copy and paste it to other place.

Another way is click add-bar and when it changes its color press ctrl-c and click where you want to copy it and press ctrl-v.

LLv34_Camouflage · « **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2001, 03:57:00 AM »

I'd like to know how deadly the fire from the rear gunners of the bombers really was. In most pilot accounts I've read, they approached the bombers from dead six and shot their engines. Usually the bomber gunners didn't get any significant damage done to the attacking fighters. Did they attack from blind spots, in teams, or what was the reason to their success? Or was it simply the fact that it was damn hard to hit an attacking fighter with a bomber gun turret? In that case the buff guns are largely overmodelled in sims.

Thanks Grendel!

Camo

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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34

Brewster into AH!

"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."

Maniac · « **Reply #8 on:** February 23, 2001, 05:02:00 AM »

At what range did they open fire?

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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-

danish · « **Reply #9 on:** February 23, 2001, 06:44:00 AM »

Deflection shooting: what would be the largest angel they would recommend?

Spare parts: did the parts all come from germany (109's especially) or were some locally manufactured?

Were there restrictions on spare parts (ie "not enough")

Were MW50 and GM1 kits avialible at any time for the 109?

Were new planes reguarly imported?If so where did they come from (like second hand kites from Russian front)?

Did gasoline, amount and quality, restrict operations?

Send them my regards...

danish

janneh · « **Reply #10 on:** February 23, 2001, 06:59:00 AM »

G-2's with 13mm mg's ?

Grendel · « **Reply #11 on:** February 24, 2001, 02:25:00 PM »

The bravest man

Told by a veteran pilot who flew either Fokkers or Gladiator fighters. (details coming later)

During the last weeks of Winter War the Russian fighters were constatly over our field. Near place called Yrjölantalo was a bunker, that had an anti aircraft machine gun, built from a Maxim machine gun. The machine gun had always two men. Once the Russian I-16s were able to surprise us, the only time during whole Winter War when they surprised us so that we couldn't take off.

One of the I-16s started to make attack runs against the anti aircraft machine gun. "I saw the bravest man ever there, the bravest one I have ever seen." The I-16 fighter and the machine gun fired at each other, head to head, many times, and the gunner had no protection at all. The gun even stood on a pole so there was absolutely nothing to protect him. And the gunner won. The I-16 started to smoke and had to make a forced landing. "It is a hard situation, when you are face to face. A tough man who stays behind the machine gun then."

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Brewster into WB!

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Grendel · « **Reply #12 on:** February 24, 2001, 07:00:00 PM »

Couple things I can answer right away but I will also write them up and ask from the old gents.

At what range did they open fire?

Close. Usual convergence (with Brewsters) was 100-150 meters. Some had it as near as 20 meters. All FAF pilot training emphatized very small shooting distances. Many pilots returned home as their planes had been damaged by debris from the target.

Spare parts: did the parts all come from germany (109's especially) or were some locally manufactured?
Were there restrictions on spare parts (ie "not enough")

109: from Germany. Germany wanted to keep Finland dependable from their spare parts etc, to keep the country more... cooperative. Didn't quite work that way, though. In practise the spares were gotten from the primary German repair shop/storage depot in Finland. Other parts, other planes... dunno. Good thing was that Russians had copied many engines used in US/French built planes, and those were captured, taken from planes that had made forced landings and bought from germany. In many cases the aircraft were very worn out when war was nearing its end, very little spare parts for the Fiats for example. Planes were used sparingly since 1942/43, in case they will be needed later.

Were MW50 and GM1 kits avialible at any time for the 109?

This was discussed with two pilots just last week. Very long arguments while the old men tried to remember ;-) They just couldnt remember any such thing on their planes, just the "emergency power" setting, but no special injections. Injection was removed from G-2s and G-6s to save the engine - Finns used the Daimler Benz engines for 100 hours, while Germans just 50 hours as they had the injection installations.

Were new planes reguarly imported?If so where did they come from (like second hand kites from Russian front)?

During war quite a lot French planes were bought from Vichy. I don't remember many captured planes bought from Russian front... Some bombers, flown from Poland. There was a squadron of MiG-1s on purchase list, but the damn British bombed the crates ;-)

Me 109s were first received as replacements, for each destroyed plane one new plane. Some were factory new, some used & factory repaired. Major deliveries of new 109s began in 1944 and especially during the "summer war", Soviet offensive, when new planes were received faster than lost.

Special note here is that the planes received in 1944 were much worse quality than earlier. The 109 G-2s in 1943 were faultless, even the used ones. But even factory new G-6s in 44 needed repairs and much fine tuning.

G-2's with 13mm mg's ?

No.

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Brewster into WB!

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