Latest headline from The Sun

[milnko]

Originally posted by llyr69
If ya don't vote, don't squeak!!!!

I actually believe the opposite.

I don't vote, and I feel that because I had no hand in creating the problems, I have more right than anyone to complain about who you voters elected.  

[Naso]

Burning a flag is quite different.

Even if is probably intended to express a "disagreement" for a nation's government policy, is a wrong act, because a flag represent more of the government itself, it represent the whole nation, and his history, and the blood that was versed to build it.

BTW, here is not enforced (I am not sure if there's even a law about it), and that is because our recent history, flag wavers, and "excessive patriots" are looked with suspect, since we had not long ago some "problems" with nationalism.

(for instance is the same reason why I look some of your patriotism manifestations with fear, they are so close to what we saw 60 years ago... not saying there in US is the same, but when someone start is difficult to see where is going to end )

[Martlet]

Originally posted by miko2d
Martlet: It's call free speech.  Too bad you don't have it.  Here we can express our opinions.

 What do you think about flag burning?

 miko

I wish I could remember what post I already answered this in.  But in short:

I'm against flag burning.  I see both sides of the issue, but here's mine.

The flag is a symbol of all things that make this a country.  It symbolizes it's people, government, freedom, and history.  When people die fighting for our country, regardless of the popularity of the conflict, they die for us all.  They die with that flag on their shoulder.

If you don't like our politics, or our government, that is fine.  I don't think everyone likes everything about the U.S.  If you want to protest something, then protest it.  If you hate the president, then burn him in effigy.  If you don't like a specific policy, then protest that.  But to me burning the flag is hipocritical.  You are taking something that symbolizes the land that gives you the freedom to protest, and burning it.  If you are protesting the NATION, then just leave.  Seriously.  If you don't like the gov't, then change it.  If you don't like the laws, change them.   Burning the flag to me sends the same message as the people in SF beating up motorists while protesting violence.  It just makes no sense.

Maybe it's because I've served my country.  Maybe it's because I've seen people die while serving it.  But I find it offensive, and it doesn't happen while I'm around.

[Shuckins]

The true extend of the French government's involvement in Saddam's weapons programs is going to become increasingly evident as the invasion progresses.  How big a blow this will be to their "principled" stand against the invasion depends on how gullible the world-wide anti-war leadership actually is.

Shuckins

[Naso]

Originally posted by Shuckins
The true extend of the French government's involvement in Saddam's weapons programs is going to become increasingly evident as the invasion progresses.  How big a blow this will be to their "principled" stand against the invasion depends on how gullible the world-wide anti-war leadership actually is.

Shuckins

Ok, let's go back in the usual BBS national attacks, and let's throw away an interesting thread.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Martlet
The flag is a symbol of all things that make this a country.  It symbolizes it's people, government, freedom, and history.  When people die fighting for our country, regardless of the popularity of the conflict, they die for us all.  They die with that flag on their shoulder.

So because the flag is a symbol of freedom, you would remove the freedom to burn it?  How ironic.

I fully support the right to burn the American flag within applicable vandalism and arson laws.  We should never selectively enforce freedom of speech or expression regardless what it symbolizes or represents to a vast majority of the population.

In my mind, you're an idiot if you burn the flag, but you're not a criminal.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[miko2d]

Martlet: I'm against flag burning.  I see both sides of the issue, but here's mine. ...

 Extensive high-spirited rhetoric noted.
 So would you join the move to outlaw this particular freedom of expression because it hurts your feelings or would you disagree in private/public with the burning but keep it legal?

 miko

[Martlet]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
So because the flag is a symbol of freedom, you would remove the freedom to burn it?  How ironic.

I fully support the right to burn the American flag within applicable vandalism and arson laws.  We should never selectively enforce freedom of speech or expression regardless what it symbolizes or represents to a vast majority of the population.

In my mind, you're an idiot if you burn the flag, but you're not a criminal.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Ok, I should have written this at a 3rd grade level.

As I stated before.  The flag represents IN MY OPINION the country as a WHOLE.  INCLUDING freedom.  If you still don't understand my post, send me a PM and I'll draw you a diagram.  Maybe coloring book style.

[Martlet]

Originally posted by miko2d
Martlet: I'm against flag burning.  I see both sides of the issue, but here's mine. ...

 Extensive high-spirited rhetoric noted.
 So would you join the move to outlaw this particular freedom of expression because it hurts your feelings or would you disagree in private/public with the burning but keep it legal?

 miko

see above reply.

i'll put together a coloring book for you, too.

[Naso]

Martlet....

Can I have a coloring book too??

[Martlet]

Originally posted by Naso
Martlet....

Can I have a coloring book too??

No, you get the troll doll.

[Naso]

Originally posted by Martlet
No, you get the troll doll.

WHAAAAAA!!!!!

Why a book to them and a doll to meeeeeee

WHAAAAAAA!!!!

....

.....

A blonde doll??

[Shuckins]

Naso,

Sorry,  it wasn't meant to be a national attack...just an observation on the possible motives behind the Frenchgovernment's reluctance to support the U.S. initiatives.  A major scandal surrounding the government's involvement in Iraq's oil industry and weapon's programs has been developing for some time.  I feel that Chirac's government is going to wind up with a considerable amount of egg on its face when the coalition forces start uncovering Saddam's weapons programs and the support he received from certain foreign governments and business concerns.

My post wasn't meant to be mean-spirited.  My apologies.

Regards, (Really!) Shuckins

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Martlet
As I stated before.  The flag represents IN MY OPINION the country as a WHOLE.  INCLUDING freedom.  If you still don't understand my post, send me a PM and I'll draw you a diagram.  Maybe coloring book style.

Fantastic response, Martlet!  Supports your point fully.  You've changed my mind.  

Now, please explain to me how, when the flag represents the country as a whole... INCLUDING freedom... that people should not have the freedom to burn the flag.  It's not good enough to say that the people protest the nation as a whole and should leave rather than burn the flag.  Obviously, if these people are burning the flag, they enjoy the freedom that their country offers to them to do so even if they protest its people, history, laws, traditions, whatever.  So why should they leave and go to some place with less freedom... some place that, say, bans flag burning?

Like I've said, flag burning is idiotic.  But it should never be illegal.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Naso

Anyway, at the end it's just a question of education, personal attacks are for uneducated people.

Really?  Wow, maybe I shouldn't have asked Dowding if he was raised with a silver spoon in his mouth!

Hiya Dowding!