Author Topic: 51st Surrenders (Read 1037 times)

Defiance · « **on:** March 21, 2003, 06:10:25 PM »

Hiya's,
Seems confirmed now

Iraqs 51st Div commander had talks with coalition forces earlier
It's now been confirmed in the UK that the whole 51st surrendered en-mass

funkedup · « **Reply #1 on:** March 21, 2003, 06:14:30 PM »

WTG 51st!

hawk220 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 21, 2003, 06:20:48 PM »

wow! I guess given the choice between eating and being dead, it was a pretty wise move.

Entire Division of Iraqi Army Surrenders

Mar 21, 6:59 PM (ET)

By MATT KELLEY

(AP) Members of India Co., 3rd Battalion, 7th Marines, 1st Marine Division confront an Iraqi soldiers...
Full Image

WASHINGTON (AP) - An entire division of the Iraqi army, numbering 8,000 soldiers, surrendered to coalition forces in southern Iraq Friday, Pentagon officials said.

Iraq's 51st Infantry Division surrendered as coalition forces advanced toward Basra, Iraq's second largest city. The mechanized division had about 200 tanks before the war, according to independent analysts and U.S. officials.

The 51st was one of the better equipped and trained in Iraq's regular army forces and was the key division protecting Basra, a major transportation and oil shipment hub on the Shatt al-Arab waterway that leads to the Persian Gulf.

babek- · « **Reply #3 on:** March 21, 2003, 06:42:53 PM »

The 51st was in an extreme bad position.

Its a sunnite regiment. In front of them were the USA troops and their auxiliaries and back in Basra all the shiites who were waiting to kill them too.

So its more than wise that they surrendered.

Toad · « **Reply #4 on:** March 21, 2003, 08:22:04 PM »

It was a VERY wise move.

No matter what their religion, no matter where they were located, no matter how many tanks they had, no matter whether they just luvvvved Saddam or not.

It was a VERY wise move because they will now live to see the sun come up tomorrow.

UserName · « **Reply #5 on:** March 21, 2003, 09:14:51 PM »

Yup, the average Iraqi has absolutely nothing to gain by resisting. The only ones that will fight are those that know they'll hang when the government is installed, either by a military tribunal or their own people.

-----------------
"You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want to go to war."

Airhead · « **Reply #6 on:** March 21, 2003, 11:11:05 PM »

Obviously the Iraqi 51st was trained by the French- the Pentagon says it was the most organized surrender since Paris in WW2.

davidpt40 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 21, 2003, 11:32:54 PM »

The French suffer only from poor officers. Their troops are brave and fierce.

Rasker · « **Reply #8 on:** March 21, 2003, 11:37:27 PM »

yeah same with the Italians, gave the Brits all they could handle with Rommel's leadership.

Any word if the 11th division has surrendered yet?

Dowding · « **Reply #9 on:** March 22, 2003, 03:18:15 AM »

The division has not surrendered yet - only one brigade out of the 51st has.

qts · « **Reply #10 on:** March 22, 2003, 04:29:01 AM »

Quote

The French suffer only from poor officers. Their troops are brave and fierce.

I have the pleasure of having known a few French officers.

I'd suggest that the French military suffers from poor political leadership rather than poor officers.

eglecz · « **Reply #11 on:** March 22, 2003, 04:42:22 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
It was a VERY wise move.

No matter what their religion, no matter where they were located, no matter how many tanks they had, no matter whether they just luvvvved Saddam or not.

It was a VERY wise move because they will now live to see the sun come up tomorrow.

LOL coz we americans,. we rock....

Babek post is very good, it explain a lot you dont know about...

but uou probably do not care about internal relations in iraq, coz you are sooo good arent you ?

Toad · « **Reply #12 on:** March 22, 2003, 05:39:21 AM »

LOL.

Nothing Babek posted was unknown to me. In fact, it's pretty common knowledge. You continually make the assumption that only the Euro's are sophisticated enough to understand geopolitics. Hmmmm.. what's that Euro word for that sort of attitude? Arrogant! Yes, that's it; I find your remark Arrogant!

And it has nothing to do with being Americans per se.

What it has to do with is that we've understood for a long time that there are folks you cannot reason with, that have to me confronted militarily. That in other places in the world, mindless slaughter will be perpetrated and that we will have to become involved in order for it to stop.

We learned plenty in the frontal assault idiocy of WW1 and more in the airwar and landwar in WW2. The results of those conflicts and the following Cold War made it clear to us that a different method was necessary if most of our sons were going to make it home.

We've spent a lot of thought, time and money developing a way to do that with minimal loss of life and in the shortest amount of time.

Now you are seeing the results of that effort.

Ponder this: We are deliberately holding back, particularly in the air war, in order to give them a chance to think through this and surrender.

The 51st made a VERY good decision.

Turdboy · « **Reply #13 on:** March 22, 2003, 09:33:01 AM »

Toad will you please STFU?

You are confusing the stupid with your facts and logic!

You need to start throwing out half truths and illogical theories.

babek- · « **Reply #14 on:** March 22, 2003, 09:52:10 AM »

The problem is not to win the war in Iraq. Every of its neighbors would be able to win against this battered army.

The problem is how to win the peace in Iraq.

And this is the reason why so many of Iraqs neighbors wanted a status quo - even with Saddam who is hated by most of the Iranians, Syrians, Saudis, Kuwaitis, Turks and so on.

In the northern iraq the problems already started: The kurdish Talabani-clan had made secret arrangements with the government in Ankara while the Barsani-Clan is getting support from Teheran. The PKK will fight against Turkey and all the minor clans are also ready to fight for their power.

In the south the shiite majority of the iraquis is only waiting until the USA and their auxiliaries have thrown out the sunnite armies. Then they can start their party - and their highest leader is the iraqui Ajatollah Hakim, who live in exile in Teheran.

The sunnite minority is supported by the arab nations who dont want to see Iraq falling apart in three countries or an independent Kurdistan or - much worse - an independent shiite Iraq with all the oil reserves and friendship to the non-arab Iran.

So a new Saddam will have to be put into power. It must be a powerful and ruthless sunnite iraqui. This decision will make the kurds and shiites of Iraq again angry and so we will be in the middle of a nice civil war.

But like in Afghanistan we will just ignore it and let all the people die.

So again: Its absolutely no problem to win this war but its imposible to win the peace for the Iraquis with the actual political strategy.