Author Topic: What caused the International hate for Bush?  (Read 1825 times)

Offline llyr69

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Differences
« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2003, 09:51:29 AM »
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The truth is, I know that most British people don't know the difference between the Reps and Dems.


Well, if you can figure out how they're in any fundamental sense different, please enlighten me.

I have a healthy scepticism of ALL politicians.


I think it's related to a prolonged exposure to the Beltway. 3 months inside and you begin to lose all contact with reality.

Offline crowMAW

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What caused the International hate for Bush?
« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2003, 09:57:43 AM »
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Originally posted by Turdboy
One party loses they contest the election they still lose but continue to spout lies about the election and question it's legality.

Now do I believe the Democrats are the only reason Bush is hated? Of course not but I do believe that their actions undermined his ability to handle other countries. And by doing this they put all of our lives at risk.


Hmmm...so when 'Pubs lose the Oval Office twice by a popular majority as well as Electorial College it is OK for them to "lie" about a Dem President making him look bad and by doing this put all our lives at risk.  LOL ;)

Maybe we should engage a new starrlett special prosecuter to look into Shrub's wife's finances and we will learn that Shrub has been diddling Karl Rove with a cigar.  I bet we would find a necktie with some nasty stains on it too. :D

Offline Dowding

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What caused the International hate for Bush?
« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2003, 10:03:15 AM »
The US has historically refused to allow it's troops to come under UN command - clearly, they were never going to be used in the peace-keeping role envisaged for the British, French, Dutch, Norwegian etc forces.

Decisive? Maybe not. But was the Clinton/US slow to get involved? If you ignore the circumstances and the precedent described above, then definitely I guess. Which would be incorrect; it had been a clear strategem by the European nations to actually solve problems on their own continent by themselves, after the Cold War. They formed the bulk of the peace-keeper force, as a result.

The ROE meant that the job could never be done, unfortunately.

Now we get to the interesting part for me. Assuming the US got involved because of pressure to stop the slaughter, and given that the US purports to have the same motivation with Iraq, why do you think there is so much opposition to the move compared to action in the Balkans?

As an aside, I didn't realise that a detachment of US Marines were under the direct command of the British at Umm Qasr. That's fairly unheard of, isn't it? I've also noted a number of British troops equipped with M16s and that SAW LMG thing, instead of the SA-80 and it's LMG equivalent.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2003, 10:06:46 AM by Dowding »
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Offline Toad

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What caused the International hate for Bush?
« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2003, 10:49:15 AM »
Gotta run right now but will be back to discuss your diversion from the first line.

First line was "Bush ignores UN. Deth to Boush & Amreeka!" in many countries.

The second was "Clinton ignores UN, violates NATO charter strikes Balkans with massive air campaign".  Where were the "Deth to Cleenton & Amreeka!" people?

Point is, it's not the "ignoring of the UN", it's something else as you have just alluded.

The "whole world" easily ignores the UN when it's convenient. Not to mention the NATO charter. ;)
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Offline StSanta

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What caused the International hate for Bush?
« Reply #49 on: March 24, 2003, 11:22:14 AM »
Think the problem is he's perceived as not thinking things through, not being too bright, being far too willing to use force. And his black and white all categorized and quantified view of the world; with us or against us. There are no nuances, only always a binary decision process. Also an unwillingness to compromise; but that could also be called steadfastness and resolution.

Then there is the big business ties in his administration, him taking in people who were involved in dodgy stuff. And the sense that he isn't running the country, but the quiet distinguished Halliburton man standing in his shadow as VP. Haven't heard much from him since the war started, because then people would think 'war for oil', despite this not being the case.

He's also very good at messing up public appearances. It is good he speaks clearly, but it is so slow that it a) annoys b) seems like patronizing and c) make him appear less intelligent than he is. Also comments like axis of evil etc creating more tension in the world....I think one of the issues people have with him is that he is a bit impulsive and prone to treat foreign policy the same way he deals with people around him; strong words, unwilling to budge and if outcome is bad, well, we'll just deal with that later.

So whatever he is really like, he is really good at putting himself in a negative light. if it hadn't been for 9/11, I think he'd now have a quite low approval rating. Seems to be a good war time president, but not good at peace times. Sorta like Churchill.

There's also the matter that he radiates the bully stuff. 'I can do A, therefore I will do A'. Meaning people have a reason to be concerned about his future decisions. Unilateralism is what he sorta stands for to people. Now many will say that he tries to get support from world and has it, but I am talking about the perception of him. And it started with Kyoto and the bit on landmines and chemical weapons. So the world got a bad first impression of him and there's been more stuff piling up.

Don't think people hate Bush. They're just a bit worried about what he'll decide to do next, since he's like that pilot in Dr Strangelove riding the nuke down towards the USSR.


I don't think the world hates Bush. For me personally I just don't think he has the necessary diplomatic skills for foreign policy questions. It is good to be perceived as steadfasts, but being percieved as bullnosed and stubborn, as already having made up ones mind before the facts are in place is a negative thing.

Don't think people trust him. That's the issue here. He sorta reminds me of LBJ and Nixon put together, only not as intelligent. Seems to go more with gut feeling than mind.

He's one of those Player types we all know from our time in school. Charming SOB, get girls easily but don't care too much about 'em. Essentially focused on himself. And we know he was this type of person earlier in life; sure he has changed, but I still see him as a player, if a mature one.

There's no need to argue about any of the points I've made here, really. This is what I've heard people say about him and some points come from my own private perception of him. Asked why he is not as popular as Clinton abroad? Well, the points above is what I've heard ppl say or thought myself. True or false, that is why.

Offline Monk

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What caused the International hate for Bush?
« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2003, 11:28:14 AM »
It's more then Bush.
It is a Love/Hate thing with America.  People love our way of life, our thinking, our Independence.
They Hate that they are not a part of it.
Those are my observations after living in Europe for 15 years.  Everybody hates Porsche..........because they can't have one. Everyone hates the best Sports Team........because its not thiers.

Offline Dowding

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What caused the International hate for Bush?
« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2003, 11:51:19 AM »
I don't know anybody who hates America. And I'm perfectly serious when I say that.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Monk

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What caused the International hate for Bush?
« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2003, 11:55:29 AM »
Ya, Hate is too harsh.
Dislike, Envy? I can't put my finger on it. One minute I'm having a normal conversation with someone, the next they are lashing out at me and my way of life.

Offline Dowding

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What caused the International hate for Bush?
« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2003, 11:59:21 AM »
Maybe you should change your after-shave. ;)

No, seriously. Santa has that problem if he starts talking about his favourite passtime - sheep-shagging. Aparently, it brings out the worst in people! I just can't understand it. :D
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Monk

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What caused the International hate for Bush?
« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2003, 12:02:02 PM »
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Originally posted by Dowding
Maybe you should change your after-shave. ;)

 
What after-shave.  When in Europe.........do like the Europeans;)

Offline StSanta

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What caused the International hate for Bush?
« Reply #55 on: March 24, 2003, 07:10:30 PM »
Dowding wears rubber boots so he has somewhere to put the sheeps hind legs so it cannot run away. Everything I know about sheep shagging I learned from him. :D

And never mind what I said about Bush. It doesn't matter in the end, just tried to explain sentiments I've heard around me.

Offline funkedup

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What caused the International hate for Bush?
« Reply #56 on: March 24, 2003, 07:57:23 PM »
From the ministry of useless information:  

The M249/SAW/Minimi is a Belgian LMG that is used by many countries.  USA just made it famous by buying one for every infantry squad.  SAS use it extensively and I think a lot of other UK special forces and recon units do so as well.


The M16 was adopted by many UK units (like special forces and recon units) due to the prolonged teething problems with the SA80.  SA80 is the main rifle in most units now, but M16 and variants are still retained because they can mount the M203 40mm grenade launcher which won't fit on an SA80.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2003, 08:02:33 PM by funkedup »

Offline TheManx

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What caused the International hate for Bush?
« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2003, 08:01:14 PM »
It's the same with the American's feeling towards the European's (the French lately). People dislike people who don't agree with them.

Offline Arlo

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What caused the International hate for Bush?
« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2003, 08:07:13 PM »
Let me explain "generalization" to you .... :D

1: I don't.

2: When I think someone's being a stupid jerk, I don't mean his neighbor, mother, wife or brother.

Quote
Originally posted by TheManx
It's the same with the American's feeling towards the European's (the French lately). People dislike people who don't agree with them.

Offline Rude

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What caused the International hate for Bush?
« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2003, 09:40:16 PM »
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Originally posted by Fishu
Bush has broke treaties, even the treaties which US itself required some other nations to participate in.
Then hes acted like a goof wondering whats up with the other world being so negative towards US after his mess ups and then he just worsens the situation by making more stupid decisions internationally to retaliate.

and so on and so on.. he must be the worst president with international relations that US has had.


He doesn't kiss your bellybutton and you don't like it...comply with treaties which are not in the US's best interest....it's NOT a one world govt....get over it.