To HO or not to HO

[SwampRat]

OK
  After a 5 hour night of getting HO'd damn near every time I get into a HO merge...and after a month+ of reading about how dweebish HO'ing is...who would like to explain to me why or even WHEN they don't take the HO shot???  Looks to me like all the squeaking about HO's I've read is complete hipocrasy.  Just wondering...no really.  Hell I'll be glad to join the ranks!  Just thought I was being..err..."the better fighter"???  How stupid of me eh?

[Jimdandy]

SwampRat. I know this wont make you happy. But I started out the first couple weeks trying my best to be a gallant solder and turn off at an angle when approaching head on as to show I was not going to HO them. I just flat got sick of being the good guy and getting plastered in the face by four out of five people because I turned myself out of position to try to show that I wanted to do more than pull a trigger on them. I really wanted to tangle it up and let the best man win. I hated getting my flight cut short because I was "nice." So now I just blaze away as soon as I can too. At least that way I stand a chance of shooting them down first. I miss some of the old AW days when people used to be more gallant. Whels is still a hold out from those day's. I wish I could say the same. I'm just burnt out. I didn't like being slapped in the face for being a gentleman so I slapped back. I don't even think about it any more.

[Sandman_SBM]

Unless you're in the training arena (and then maybe not even then) or better yet, in an H2H match, why would you expect a neutral merge with no firing?

Odds are you'll get in a fight, bleed all your energy turning and then if you manage to win, someone will hit you from on high with a large energy advantage. Wasting your time being noble will do nothing but get you killed.

In a game like this, ACM is a tool. It's not the goal for me. Many pilots have other objectives, taking bases, shutting down radar, protecting bombers, etc. I have no intention of dallying around being noble. It seldom supports the mission.

sand
screamin blue messiahs

[TheWobble]

Well, if you have a plane with
A. more speed
OR
B.better turning ability,
just do the following..
when you are about 1.4k from them heading head on, dive about 30 degrees and then just as you pass under them pull hard up, and into a loop, at the crest of the loop you will have
A: altitude advantage for manuevering.
B: you will have alt and be on their bellybutton because they kept going straight.
C: you will enter a turning contest because you both did the same thing.

any of the above is better than a HO blaze fest IMO, and believe it or not it is EXTREMELY difficult to hit a plane diving under you and if the guy does try to shoot you as you dive under it will drag him down even further giving you an even bigger alt advantage at the crest of the loop.

just make sure you have the speed to make the loop without stalling.

I think I will make a video of this for my "tactics" section on my page.


[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 01-14-2001).]

[Sandman_SBM]

Excellent point, Wobble. A HO blaze fest on the first merge really takes two to tango.

I try to avoid HO firing at the first merge simply because it puts me at risk, but I often find myself in a HO situation on the second or later merge while struggling for angles and really have little choice but to take the shot presented all the while hoping his nose doesn't come around to face me.

[SwampRat]

Guyz'n Galz
  The point is...why is there so much squeaking about the HO when everyone but EVERYONE I've run into so far does it? Beyond that...I will remain noble and IMO respectable.  Fact or
Fantasy, I'd much rather give up the HO shot in order to remain the better more skillfull pilot.  Hey If I give up the HO and get my narly butt wooped..then <S> to the other guy.  But I'll be damned if I show one ounce of respect for the pilot that in a tight situation takes the HO rather than rely on skill and cunning to get on my 6 and earn the kill..ya...there I go again..I said EARN!! (not that it takes much to Earn a kill on me lol).  Someone's got to maintain some semblance of dignity....<sigh>  HO me if you will...I won't stoop.

[llbm_MOL]

Swamp....its soooooo ezy to kill a guy that goes for the HO. All ya gottado is make him miss. Then you have the advantage. If your in a plane that doesnt turn as good as his you keep on going, gain alt, come back and straff him till he's dead. If you have a plane that turns better than him then you MAKE him miss(many ways to do this) and you have him beat. He's going for the shot while your getting first break on him. Once you have the first turn merge on him HE"s DEAD!!!! Unless you just suck once your on his six and you cant hit toejam Otherwise you won the battle on the first merge when he went for the HO and you went for position.

LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!

[Toad]

HO is discussed in many threads.

It is indeed very easy to avoid being hit by a guy taking the HO shot.

You can use this "miss maneuver" to set up on the guy that pursues his HO shot all the way in.

It does take two to HO. If you have a guy boring in HO at you and you do the same....you're part of the HO.

Continuous small, smooth energy-conserving maneuvers out of plane as he closes followed by a lead turn will make him miss.
 
SwampRat...are you at Offutt? I used to be 38th.

[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 01-14-2001).]

[TheWobble]

Yes, ya cant really call anyone a HO'dweeb because it takes 2 to HO  

[Hangtime]

A shots a shot. When yer upta yer bellybutton in red dots or on escort missions I tend to be less descriminating in offering a guy the chance to get past me. War is hell.  

[Creamo]

Old Dick Bong sure didn't mind the HO, concidering it accounted for almost all his kills.

Anyway, if you start pulling a lead turn and slightly into the verticle at 1.0yrds on the merge, not only are you going to gain the angles, its virtually impossible to get shot.

Matter of fact, ive never gotten hit with this tactic. Only time I get HO'd usually, is when Im HO'ing. :0) I think you'll find that true yourselves.

[Hooligan]

SwampRat:

If you ruin the HO shot and go for position while the other guy goes for the HO, you will win the vast majority of the time.

People squeak about HOs because they don't anticipate them and are too lazy to do the merge correctly and ruin the HO shot.

It makes no sense to squeak when the other guy is giving you an advantage (i.e. taking the HO shot).  Or at least it makes no sense unless you are lazy or stupid or both.

Hooligan

[CavemanJ]

There is such a thing as a HO dweeb:  The one who will dive from 5k alt advantage as soon as he sees your icon.

It doesn't always take 2 to HO, sometimes it's forced on you and you just can't avoid it, like in a huge furball where you've just outfoxed and dispatched someone, and see a HO dweeb barrelling straight at ya.

Some folks consider ANY front quarter shot to be a HO.  Including a flat scissors where you finally push them out front and get a snapshot from (thier POV) 10/2oc and kill'em (which IMO is in no means a HO).

When I'm outnumbered I'll take any shot I got.  The worse the odds against me the wilder the shot I'll take.

If I'm just feeling dweeby I'll HO your yer arse, specially if I see you setting up to go HO on me  

[hblair]

People who squeak about getting killed by an HO shot:

1. Were also taking the HO shot themselves, and just lost.

2. Have such limited ACM ability, that they don't know how to effectively avoid it.

[Creamo]

I was filming F4U fights last night. Found this one really interesting pertaining to this topic.

HO FILM

The first merge is exactly what I was saying as far as pulling at 1.0K and going vertical, and it leads to what I thought was a good position shot.(he didn't seem to think so) I guess you could call it a HO, but he wasn't in position to shoot me. Your FE makes a huge difference in AH I think.

The next F4U lives after the same type of merge due to the 1/2 5th of Macallan Scotch aiming recticle I was impaired with. (notice I even forget to retrim the whole fight, what a boner)

And finally, someone turns that F4U-D really, REALLY good and suddenly Im chasing him and in a bad position. In seconds Im looking at a face full of F4U, with another high,  so infact I HO as best I could! (So does he.)  Nothing left to do there imho. He is a excellent HO shot, taking off both horizontal stabs and elevators!

I find nothing wrong with any of it still, as it's the MA, not a cold guns HTH tournament.