Author Topic: War's influence on Russian "economics". (Read 1213 times)

Elfie · « **Reply #15 on:** March 27, 2003, 02:12:09 PM »

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If France Germany and Russia would have supported this deal, might not have had to fire a shot.

Yeager has a point here. Russia however didn't support the first Gulf war if my memory is correct. By not showing a united front against Saddam we give him hope that the rest of the world might actually stop the coalition. This in turn will make the war last longer, and cost MORE lives.

Wlfgng · « **Reply #16 on:** March 27, 2003, 02:15:28 PM »

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Unless he turned out to be like that protestor I whacked with my car "on accident" the other day when he jumped into the street with his sign.

lol

emodin · « **Reply #17 on:** March 27, 2003, 03:24:52 PM »

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Originally posted by Elfie
Russia however didn't support the first Gulf war if my memory is correct.

The Soviet Union supported the UN resolution authorizing the use of force against Iraq during the first conflict.

Arlo · « **Reply #18 on:** March 27, 2003, 03:39:15 PM »

And to think, I was bending over backwards to be civil in that one.

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Originally posted by funkedup
Guys remember Hitech said to be civil. The last US vs Russia thread got locked.

Back on topic: I wouldn't be so certain that Iraq will have a big effect on oil prices.

udet · « **Reply #19 on:** March 27, 2003, 05:43:16 PM »

I'm sure mother Russia will find a country on the verge of war to sell their weapons to. Maybe Bo is right, it will be cold war all over again

vorticon · « **Reply #20 on:** March 27, 2003, 05:45:11 PM »

mmf...your all a bunch of doomsayers

Boroda · « **Reply #21 on:** March 28, 2003, 07:30:10 AM »

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Originally posted by Wlfgng
Boroda makes some good points that I never knew before.
One must remember to look at things from his side...scarey though it may be.

Personally, I'd bet that if Boroda were to visit one (or many) of us here in the USA he'd be surprised to find that we're all basically the same underneath. Not governments, but basic people.

we have friends (hopefully),we drink, we have fun, we love our families and desire some stability in our lives.
and most of us are frustrated in some form or other because world events are out of our control.

Wlfgng, I know that Americans are nice and friendly people. I have been to the US in 1989, as an exchange student. Last summer I had an honour to be a host for Leonid (Greg Guerrero), one of the most nice people I have met.

Any state is an enemy of the people, and, according to Lenin - "an instrument of suppressing the personality". It's one of the few things on which I agree with Lenin

Boroda · « **Reply #22 on:** March 28, 2003, 07:34:38 AM »

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Originally posted by Elfie
Boroda how is our involvement in Kosovo *criminal*? Do you think we should have let those people be murdered, or driven from their homes?

If I see a bank being robbed and have the means to stop the robbery...but instead do nothing. Doesn't that make me an accomplice and just as guilty as the robbers? If your answer is yes, then how would you defend your country's reluctance to help out in Kosovo and now in Iraq? Both Kosovo and Iraq had/have crimes against humanity going on. If you stand by and do nothing, you support those crimes with your inaction.

the problem that in Kosovo NATO was on the side who committed crimes against humanity.

NATO killed 10 times more people then died in a Kosovo anti-terrorist operation on both sides. NATO helped Albanian terrorists and drug-dealers against Serbian police forces, and in fact established a fundamental Moslim terrorist anclave in Europe. Fortunately, an attempt to continue in Macedonia failed.

Martlet · « **Reply #23 on:** March 28, 2003, 07:49:30 AM »

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Originally posted by Boroda
Wlfgng, I know that Americans are nice and friendly people. I have been to the US in 1989, as an exchange student. Last summer I had an honour to be a host for Leonid (Greg Guerrero), one of the most nice people I have met.

Any state is an enemy of the people, and, according to Lenin - "an instrument of suppressing the personality". It's one of the few things on which I agree with Lenin

Baroda,

I've lived in many other countries through work. Never Russia though. I've enjoyed almost every one of them. While I'm not claiming to be an expert of ANY country's political system, including my own, I do feel I have a decent understanding of many of them.

I have noticed that the US is different to most countries. First, in order for democracy to work like it does for us, the people, including the politicians, truly have to want it to work. With the exception of the far ends of the spectrum, americans want it to work.

Secondly, most americans are extremely cynical by nature. They don't trust politicans. Whether this is right or wrong is irrelevant. It keeps the politicians under scrutiny.

Third, EVERYONE in the US has an opinion and gets to voice it. We have EXTREME left wingers AND right wingers. Following either side would be wrong, so fortunately in most cases the country is forced to compromise and takes the middle. Usually the middle is the right way to go.

Our press is not filtered censored, it's slanted. It's privately owned. For example, New York Times is an extremely liberal paper. If you follow the headlines, they all post "doom and gloom" in Iraq while printing the exact same story. They want the US to win, but they want heavy losses (not neccessarily in lives). Why? Because they hate Bush, and that would make him look bad. The Union Leader makes it look like Bush ****s! gold nuggets for the Iraqis, because they love him. We've learned to read between the lines, and form our own opinion. America is certainly not short of opinions.

We are arrogant. We DO think we are the best nation on earth, and noone will ever convince me otherwise. The fact that I can have my voice heard in the highest level of politics and have it matter shows that. Are we perfect? No, and some countries are much better than us in some areas. I think US wins hands down overall, though. I love other countries, I enjoy living in them, but when I come home I see how much nicer it is here.

I think Americans as a whole HONESTLY want to help other nations have what we do. Perhaps this is wrong, but I feel once they got a taste of it, they'd love it. The US doesn't have many emmigrants, but the immigrant rate is unreal. That tells me something.

I think I hijacked my own reply again.

Anyway, feel free to continue calling me a ****bag. I just think many people don't understand.

Boroda · « **Reply #24 on:** March 28, 2003, 08:18:07 AM »

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Originally posted by Martlet
Very well put.

I think that is the main issue with most of these board wars.

If I lived in Russia, I probably wouldn't understand our fear of terrorism, for whatever reason. And if he lived here, he most likely would understand how we feel about it.

You repeat exactly what most of the Russians said about Americans and Euro human rights freaks in Autumn, 1999, when Chechens started blowing up apartment buildings in Moscow and other Russian cities, after their invasion to Dagestan was defeated by Russian army and Dagestan people's militia.

That's why Russia supported an anti-terrorist alliance immediately after 9/11. But the new-born alliance meant only Russia supporting anti-Taliban forces in Afghanistan, while mr. Rumsfield made stupid statments about possible military action against Russia, protecting "souverenity" of Georgia that openly harboured Chechen terrorists.

Martlet · « **Reply #25 on:** March 28, 2003, 08:22:11 AM »

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Originally posted by Boroda
You repeat exactly what most of the Russians said about Americans and Euro human rights freaks in Autumn, 1999, when Chechens started blowing up apartment buildings in Moscow and other Russian cities, after their invasion to Dagestan was defeated by Russian army and Dagestan people's militia.

That's why Russia supported an anti-terrorist alliance immediately after 9/11. But the new-born alliance meant only Russia supporting anti-Taliban forces in Afghanistan, while mr. Rumsfield made stupid statments about possible military action against Russia, protecting "souverenity" of Georgia that openly harboured Chechen terrorists.

Even most of us conservative Americans think Rumsfeld is an Ass.

Boroda · « **Reply #26 on:** March 28, 2003, 08:24:51 AM »

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Originally posted by Martlet

Anyway, feel free to continue calling me a ****bag. I just think many people don't understand.

Sorry, did I call you bad words?...

It's nice to have a good discussion without any people blaming Russia in all possible sins including raping all german population in 1945, regardless to their sex.

Describing American people you said things that can as well describe current situation in Russia, with all that free press things. The main difference is that after Soviet times we are very tired of helping anyone who declares they are building Socialism. We'd better help ourselves and leave other nations internal problems to them.

Boroda · « **Reply #27 on:** March 28, 2003, 08:26:42 AM »

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Originally posted by Martlet
Even most of us conservative Americans think Rumsfeld is an Ass.

Is it true that he was a defence secretary once before in 70s?Current US politics reminds me of Brzezinsky and his brilliant programms of economica, political and territorial destruction of Russia

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #28 on:** March 28, 2003, 08:47:37 AM »

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Originally posted by Boroda
Is it true that he was a defence secretary once before in 70s?Current US politics reminds me of Brzezinsky and his brilliant programms of economica, political and territorial destruction of Russia

Rumsfeld was Secretary of Defense under Gerald Ford. As well, Dick Cheney became Ford's Chief of Staff after Rumsfeld was promoted from that job to the cabinet position.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Wlfgng · « **Reply #29 on:** March 28, 2003, 08:57:46 AM »

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We'd better help ourselves and leave other nations internal problems to them.

that's what most American people think.. but not the politicians