Author Topic: Is Anti-War the same as Anti-Troops?  (Read 1973 times)

Offline Toad

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Is Anti-War the same as Anti-Troops?
« Reply #45 on: March 29, 2003, 08:51:13 AM »
Yeah, get out there and show the world you support people that put other people through shredders!

You go boy!









(Like it or not, you're making a choice)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline blitz

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Is Anti-War the same as Anti-Troops?
« Reply #46 on: March 29, 2003, 11:18:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Yeah, get out there and show the world you support people that put other people through shredders!

You go boy!

(Like it or not, you're making a choice)



My proposal for this war would have been a fair 2 people fight.


A square drawn into the sand of Iraq dessert , 30 feet by 30feet.

Saddam engages with the bones of the people he murdered and
 
Bush retaliates with all his empty bourbon bottles :D


Regards Blitz




America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous, it's an "Angriffskrieg"


2 Million people was killed in Vietnam, 3 million injured. What for?

Offline bowser

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Is Anti-War the same as Anti-Troops?
« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2003, 06:33:42 PM »
"...make yah a deal. if we ain't got iraq under a new regime in 6 months, i'll be in the ranks of war protestors....".

What the heck does the length of the war have to do with it?  It's a just war or it isn't.  State your position either way and stick with it 'ya wuss.  No jumpin' off the bandwagon allowed.


bowser
« Last Edit: March 29, 2003, 06:38:51 PM by bowser »

Offline Toad

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Is Anti-War the same as Anti-Troops?
« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2003, 09:42:05 PM »
Blitz, I'd settle for calling off the whole war if you had to personally stand and watch every torture and murder committed in Iraq  by Saddam or his representatives[/edit>  for the next year.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2003, 10:14:04 PM by Toad »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Hangtime

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Is Anti-War the same as Anti-Troops?
« Reply #49 on: March 29, 2003, 10:24:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bowser
"...make yah a deal. if we ain't got iraq under a new regime in 6 months, i'll be in the ranks of war protestors....".

What the heck does the length of the war have to do with it?  It's a just war or it isn't.  State your position either way and stick with it 'ya wuss.  No jumpin' off the bandwagon allowed.

bowser


??? you drew an analogy with vietnam. i poped a hole in it, the comparison is invalid; infering that the war in iraq won't last more than six months. compared to the mis-manged clusterfork that turned into 12 years of american political assininity, the iraq war has had from the onset a set of goals that we WILL achieve.

should we deviate, should iraq turn into a vietnam style clusterfork, i'll join the ranks of war prostestors and demand the return of our troops.

my position has been exceedingly clear. the war is just, our stated goals are the objective.

yer sated position of 'supporting the troops, but not the war' sounds like mamby-pamby double speak to me. can't ride both wagons at once, bowser. either the war is just, or it is not.

wuss, yerself.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Nash

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Is Anti-War the same as Anti-Troops?
« Reply #50 on: March 29, 2003, 10:39:57 PM »
"Blitz, I'd settle for calling off the whole war if you had to personally stand and watch every torture and murder committed in Iraq by Saddam or his representatives[/edit> for the next year." - Toad

... and leave your country exposed to the threat of a WMD attack?

It's wild to me... how the debate has so rapidly shifted to become almost predominantly about the human rights violations in Iraq.

Ironic as it may be, the more it's about national self interests and the less it's about liberating and protecting the peoples of other nations, the better off its gonna be viewed. And by far the more legitimate your aims.

You have a right to protect yourself. It's a bit more sketchy when you're trying to maintain your right to liberate a people in some far away bad country or other that may or may not even WANT you there. Because then Blit'z "you didn't care before" argument becomes valid. And you'd *certainly* want UN backing if that's the case. It also becomes about nation building and the world's policeman. It's setting a precedent to do the same for other downtrodden countries. Plus... nobody in their right minds really believes that it's what this war is about.

Why even go there? But no... all you hear about nowadays is how these people need to be liberated.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2003, 10:44:53 PM by Nash »

Offline Toad

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« Reply #51 on: March 29, 2003, 10:44:13 PM »
Nah, I'd just want to see what Blitz was posting after a year of that.  

After all, America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain ridiculous, it's an "Angriffskrieg"



:D


You already know what I think. After all, you're a sentient being, unlike...... oops, no ad hominems!
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Hangtime

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Is Anti-War the same as Anti-Troops?
« Reply #52 on: March 29, 2003, 10:55:01 PM »
nash.. i guess we're supposed to pick one item from the list of henious practices of saddams regime?

check the list.. we're working down it.

Rumsfeld said the goal of the operation is to defend Americans, eliminate Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, and liberate the Iraqi people.

"Coalition military operations are focused on achieving several specific objectives: to end the regime of Saddam Hussein by striking with force on a scope and scale that makes clear to Iraqis that he and his regime are finished," he said.

Next, Rumsfeld said their goal is "to identify, isolate and eventually eliminate Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, their delivery systems, production capabilities, and distribution networks. Third, he said, they'll "search for, capture, drive out terrorists who have found safe harbor in Iraq."

Fourth, they plan to "collect such intelligence as we can find related to terrorist networks in Iraq and beyond," followed by collection of "such intelligence as we can find related to the global network of illicit weapons of mass destruction activity."

Sixth, they seek "to end sanctions and to immediately deliver humanitarian relief, food and medicine to the displaced and to the many needy Iraqi citizens." Seventh, they plan to "secure Iraq's oil fields and resources, which belong to the Iraqi people, and which they will need to develop their country after decades of neglect by the Iraqi regime."

"And last, to help the Iraqi people create the conditions for a rapid transition to a representative self-government that is not a threat to its neighbors and is committed to ensuring the territorial integrity of that country."

"This war is an act of self defense, to be sure, but it is also an act of humanity. Coalition forces are eliminating a regime that is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of its own people and which is pursuing weapons that would enable it to kill hundreds of thousands more. In recent days, the world has witnessed further evidence of their brutality and their disregard for the laws of war. Their treatment of coalition POWs is a violation of the Geneva Conventions.

To the families of those captured or missing, know that our thoughts and prayers are with you and with your loved ones and that we will do everything in our power to bring them safely home. To the families and loved ones of those brave men and women who have been killed or wounded, know that their courage and sacrifice are deeply appreciated by all Americans.

The regime has committed acts of treachery on the battlefield dressing their forces as liberated civilians, and sending soldiers out waving white flags and feigning surrender, with the goal of drawing coalition forces into the ambushes; using Red Cross vehicles to courier military instructions. These are serious violations of the laws of war. The regime's actions have had little practical military effect thus far, but they do serve as a telling reminder of why it is important that this regime be removed.

Those who behave with such brutality cannot be allowed to possess tools of mass murder. This is the behavior of desperate men. Iraqi authorities know their days are numbered. And while the Iraqi regime is on the way out, it's important to know that it can still be brutal, particularly in the moments before it finally succumbs. This campaign could well grow more dangerous in the coming days and weeks as coalition forces close on Baghdad and the regime is faced with its certain death. But the outcome is assured.

To the Iraqi people, let me say this: By now you have seen and know that coalition airstrikes are not aimed at you, they are aimed at the regime of Saddam Hussein. We are systematically eliminating the institutions that repress you. As we do so, we are doing everything possible to protect innocent civilians. Humanitarian assistance, food, water and medicine is already being delivered, and more will arrive shortly. A regime that starved its own people so that a dictator could build many, many palaces, will be removed. In its place, you will build a free Iraq with a new government based on democratic principles of political freedom, individual liberty, and the rule of law. "

Rummy the Dummy, 25Mar
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline bowser

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Is Anti-War the same as Anti-Troops?
« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2003, 12:17:35 AM »
"...you drew an analogy with vietnam. i poped a hole in it, the comparison is invalid...".

I never compared the Vietnam war to the Iraq war.  I used the protests…key word protests…against the Vietnam war as an illustration of anti-war activism that in the end turned out to be perfectly justified.  But no…if you had your way, people would have had to keep their mouths shut because their country was at war, it emboldened the enemy.  Small price to pay for freedom of speech if you ask me.  Freedom of speech.  You may have heard of it.  It's one of the wonderful aspects of western life they're fighting to bring to the Iraqi people.

bowser
« Last Edit: March 30, 2003, 12:23:47 AM by bowser »

Offline Hangtime

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Is Anti-War the same as Anti-Troops?
« Reply #54 on: March 30, 2003, 12:25:04 AM »
Quote
But no…if you had your way, people would have had to keep their mouths shut because their country was at war, it emboldened the enemy. Small price to pay for freedom of speech if you ask me. Freedom of speech. You may have heard of it. It's one of those wonderful aspects of western life we're trying to impart to the Iraqi people


you missed it again bowser.

12 years.

when did the protests start against the vietnam war?

we were not marching on washinton in the second week of that lil fray. or the second year.

Quote
Freedom of speech. You may have heard of it.


aid and comfort to the enemy, bowser. you may have heard of it.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Eagler

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Is Anti-War the same as Anti-Troops
« Reply #55 on: March 30, 2003, 12:56:46 AM »
in many cases, yes

what group spit on the soldiers when they returned from the jungles of vietnam?

what group has haters of the military in it? US/democracy haters in it?

what group has communists in it?

to say you r one but not the other is fence sitting ... before the fighting started you could be both, now its one or the other til its over...

ps
Nash
though I do not agree with anything you say, please continue to post as your avatar is tops :)
« Last Edit: March 30, 2003, 12:59:52 AM by Eagler »
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Offline Nash

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Is Anti-War the same as Anti-Troops?
« Reply #56 on: March 30, 2003, 01:28:01 AM »
Will do Eagler. If I can bring just a little bit of sunshine into this world I will have considered my existence worthwhile. :)

I was born in '69 so as far as wars go I'm just a pup... I'm curious... The "free speech vs aid and comfort" debate was going on during the Vietnam War was it not? Was there anything like it during the Korean War? Others?

Also... could it be said that despite the protests during Vietnam "providing aid and comfort to the enemy", did they have the net effect of *saving* thousands of lives when all is said and done?

Offline Erlkonig

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Is Anti-War the same as Anti-Troops?
« Reply #57 on: March 30, 2003, 01:57:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
I was born in '69 so as far as wars go I'm just a pup... I'm curious... The "free speech vs aid and comfort" debate was going on during the Vietnam War was it not? Was there anything like it during the Korean War? Others?


Of course.  Go read about the Sedition Act of 1918.

Offline Nash

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Is Anti-War the same as Anti-Troops?
« Reply #58 on: March 30, 2003, 02:39:41 AM »
Hhm... a pretty frightening piece of law.

Is there any difference between the Sedition Act and what the anti-protestors want?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2003, 02:45:01 AM by Nash »

Offline Suave

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Is Anti-War the same as Anti-Troops?
« Reply #59 on: March 30, 2003, 07:22:25 AM »
Right now the protester protectors are at war with the anti-protester regime in Iraq .