Author Topic: Longer period of history (Read 1456 times)

artik · « **on:** March 28, 2003, 04:46:02 PM »

Hi,
All the planes in AH are from the period of 1939 to 1945 the period of WWII. Did the history of AF finished in 45? Did the great air battales finished in 45? Did we had Korean War? Did We had Vietnam, Did we see Six Day War in Middle East?
What about to add more periods of history with rolling plane set:
1 Our known WW2
2 Korean War with Mig15, F86 etc. jets
3 Vietnam War with F4 and Mig 21, Mig 17
4 Middle East Six Day War - Mirage and Mig 21

Add helecopters to bring troops, to save pilots that ejected their planes and to bring them back.

Do you think that flying F-4 or Mirage less interesting then Mustang and 190? They are faster but you have to know to fight. The missles in thet period had very poor profomances most of kills were with guns - so it is very interesting periods of Air Force History so I think it would be nice if they were realised in AH.

Artik,
101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Karnak · « **Reply #1 on:** March 28, 2003, 04:57:52 PM »

There are still tremendous gaps to be filled in the WWII plane/ship/vehicle set. I don't see a need for moving beyond that.

And yes, I find the F-4, Mirage, Su-27, ect, ect boring as hell.

If HTC was to do another era of air combat, I'd pick WWI, but not until WWII is nearly finished.

BenDover · « **Reply #2 on:** March 28, 2003, 05:05:40 PM »

ermmmm.....no

Arlo · « **Reply #3 on:** March 28, 2003, 08:14:44 PM »

I wouldn't mind seeing the setting having a broad range as far as time is concerned (as well as theaters) ... but I would tend to go the other way. Start out in Spain in 1936 for some fun uber-bipe action that transitions into mono vs. mono .... maybe the Russian campaign against Japan ... as well as the Blitzkrieg. Then Bob. Early Pac with the Japanese enjoying an advantage in momentum and equipment against U.S. and British forces. North Africa - Med campaigns. Guadalcanal/Solomons campaign. Italy. Extensive Eastern front and Balkans. The invasion of "Fortress Europe". Final days for both the European and Asian conflicts.

Of course ... I'm just talking basic setups. I'd like to see the ability to modify all of these reflecting a more dynamic war where possibly some actions and decisions can affect the outcome of specific battles, campaigns and, in the long run, the war.

I know the current proposal suggests the individual player or player squadrons being insignificant in the scheme of things (and yes ... that makes things easy to "script") but it would be nice to see the war less scripted and more dynamic.

Sorry for deviating. Back to the specific subject at hand. I've never had much interest in air to air simulations past the Korean era. After all, the air-to-air missle/HUD pretty well marks the end of the true dogfighting era. And as far as Korea goes ... I see about as much a possibility of Dale focusing on it as I do the Spanish Civil War (in spite of my dedicated and protracted campaign to promote it

).

Major_Hans · « **Reply #4 on:** March 28, 2003, 08:52:42 PM »

Ermmm.....YES!!

I want to play an online jet simulator, and I don't mean Korea. I want to fire a missle or two sometimes.

I would stick to the first and second generation jets (read: F86 and F104), and not the jets with their infalible missles we see today. No F-15 or MiG 29s please. Those jets still got into turns and burns with each other because missles don't always work.

Mid air refueling from drone tankers, circling drone AWACS instead of ground radars to provide the map information. Slant deck aircraft carriers.

MiGs and Sukhois, Mirages, BAC Lightnings, the Century series from the USA. Two seater fighters like the Phantom F-4.

Super bombers like the B36, B47, B52, Avro Vulcan, and Tupelev Bear and Backfires. Anti submarine aircraft with their MAD gear like the P3 orion to sink Boomer subs before they could launch their missles.

I want World War III in Europe during the 50s and 60s folks. Lets not do the proxy wars. Let us actually see the main event.

Those would be fun. I would pay to play those. I would play on the Red side too.

artik · « **Reply #5 on:** March 29, 2003, 02:42:03 AM »

Hi,

>After all, the air-to-air missle/HUD pretty well marks the end of the true dogfighting era

Air to air missels where not good weapon in this years - for exemple in Six Day War of 67 there where just one or two kills with air to air missels. They could not do nothing this missels. HUD - in this years HUD had only gunsite that was corrected to distance - to make you able to shoot at didtances of 500- 1000 yard (Can you shoot from this distances in mustang ?

) as a result that fights become fastest - 300 - 500 knots and not 200 - 300 in WW2, so try to aim with mustang gunsite at speed of 500 knots

. HUD had just very few things - that is not HUD of F-15
The best Air to Air missle of 1973 in Yom Kipur War in middle east was Israely Shafrir 2 - 50% of kills Aim9D had just 30% and AIM 7 had 25%. Why?
There is the perfomances of Shafrir 2 (best missle) it could follow target that turns with less than 2 G (!), it could be fired when it see the nossle of plane in 30 degr. maximum (you can shoot the missle just when the plane trying to escape from you and you on his 6 not 7 or 5 !). any hard turn and the missle lost the target.The ditance you can shoot the missle was 2-3 miles not more than that. The only one way the missels used to make the plane that escaping from you to brake and loos his energy or die. You had to use the missels just because the speeds had increased and thru the distances so it was harder to shoot with your gun. Any way 50 - 60% of all kills in Yom Kipur War of 1973 were with guns. In this war where involved Mirages, Mig21 and F-4E. Not F-15 or Mig 29.

So don't thik that missels era changed a lot. You have to know to dogfight on faster speeds and to operate you weapon in more hard conditions. More than that you can not shoot the missle in short distances of 1000 yard so is it realy good weapon?

The only one reason that missels started to be used - the speeds and the distances. But the dogfight was still dogfight.

So what I mean is not to add F15 - (flying Air ti Air missels battary, But if you interested there is still a lot of use of Vulckan in F-15 it is still very good weapon), But to add jets - planes to get bigger speeds and hights.

WWI ? planes that you can make a loop just after long dive? As for me I don't like to fly Spit 1 or Hurrican 1 - they are too poor for me and I see a lot of people try to gets perks to fly 262 !

Artik
101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Loddar · « **Reply #6 on:** March 29, 2003, 03:10:08 AM »

Leave it as it is, but give us more planes for the different
time periods of war. Brits not only have these 5 planes in war and
Soviets too. Think of our poor Italian plane flyers too

Karnak · « **Reply #7 on:** March 29, 2003, 04:09:45 AM »

If I were in Pyro's place I would be selecting Units from this list as my priority:

Russia
I-16-18
I-16-24
I-153
Il-10
LaGG-3
Pe-2
Pe-2FT
Pe-2B
T-34/76
T-34/85
Yak-1
Yak-7

Japanese
A6M3a
B6N2
D4Y2
G4M2
Ki.43-II
Ki.44-II-Otsu
Ki.45
Ki.61-I-Ko
Ki.61-I-Otsu
Ki.84-I-Ko

American
B-25B
B-25J
F6F-3
M4A3 (75mm)
M4A3 (76mm)
P-38F
P-39D
P-39Q

German
Bf109G-14
Fw190A-2
Ju87G-1
Ju188A-2

British
Mosquito B.Mk IV
Mosquito B.Mk XVI
Spitfire Mk VIII
Wellington Mk III

Italian
C.200
CR.42
Re.2000
Re.2002
Z.1007

Misc
Brewster B.239
Commonwealth Boomerang
D.520
M.S.406
PZL P.11c

The units on this list would do the most for closing up gaps in the current unit set in my opinion. Of course this list would have to be adjusted based on the available information. It is quite likely that I have listed aircraft for which the performance data is simply unavailable. Those aircraft would have to be eliminated from the list.

As I am not in Pyro's place I shall have to be content with what he sees as needed.

Furball · « **Reply #8 on:** March 29, 2003, 05:31:26 AM »

i agree with the above list, but add a Meteor III as a nice jet fighter alternative, Gloster Gladiator for CT and SEA events (or for suicidal dogfighting in MA - which i currently have to use D3A for

) and the HS129 for killing those pesky tanks

artik · « **Reply #9 on:** March 29, 2003, 06:29:54 AM »

Hi,
Can someone explane why are you so closed in WW2 planes just like history and great battales had finished in 1945?
Aces were in 50s and 60s too. You could see the dogfights and big fights of 20 vs 20 planes in this years too? Missles ? Speeds? What is the difference? Does MiG-21 exploding in you gunsite looks worster then Fw190? Does Mirage looks worster then P38 or Yak9? Don't you have to be good pilot flying at speeds of 400-600 knots and not 200-300? Does bombing targets with Phantom easyer then with F4U (it didn't had CIPP in this years)?
Do you have to aim less exectly with F86 firing MiG15 than 109 firing Spit?

Can someone explane me please?

Artik,
101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Furball · « **Reply #10 on:** March 29, 2003, 06:59:50 AM »

No one said great battles ended in 1945, this is a WWII based simulation, go play 'Mig Alley' if u want to fly something else. Personally i prefer WWI simulation games where IMO (dont slate me on this

) more emphasis is on pilot ability rather than a/c type.

artik · « **Reply #11 on:** March 29, 2003, 08:05:46 AM »

You know that Mig Alley is not the same game.
I'm talking about realy multyplayers game 200-300 not 8. HighTechCreations can take this part of game market adding new era of Jets. The hole thing is to fly together in squadrons to make on-line combats with a lot of players! This part of the market can be easy catched by HTC and to push other games like Mig Alley and to make them really interesting.

Artik,
101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Karnak · « **Reply #12 on:** March 29, 2003, 01:22:33 PM »

Shooting at little dots on my radar that my computer tells me are enemies isn't my kind of fun.

Sorry.

I subscribed to a WWII sim because I like WWII aircraft, not because I hoped they'd add the F-4 or MiG-21 someday.

Ike 2K# · « **Reply #13 on:** March 29, 2003, 01:49:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
If I were in Pyro's place I would be selecting Units from this list as my priority:

Russia
I-16-18
I-16-24
I-153
Il-10
LaGG-3
Pe-2
Pe-2FT
Pe-2B
T-34/76
T-34/85
Yak-1
Yak-7

The units on this list would do the most for closing up gaps in the current unit set in my opinion. Of course this list would have to be adjusted based on the available information. It is quite likely that I have listed aircraft for which the performance data is simply unavailable. Those aircraft would have to be eliminated from the list.

As I am not in Pyro's place I shall have to be content with what he sees as needed.

ahem!!!!!! you forgot the yak 3, the fastest and the best-turning soviet fighters of all time

Ike 2K# · « **Reply #14 on:** March 29, 2003, 01:51:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
Shooting at little dots on my radar that my computer tells me are enemies isn't my kind of fun.

Sorry.

I subscribed to a WWII sim because I like WWII aircraft, not because I hoped they'd add the F-4 or MiG-21 someday.

is korean war and the 6 day war ok for ah2?

these theaters didint or rarely use heat seeking missiles or BVR missiles