Author Topic: F4U-1C weight? (Read 808 times)

Urchin · « **on:** March 29, 2003, 11:41:04 AM »

I've heard that there was weight added to this airplane a looong time ago. I've never been what you would call a huge fan of the plane, but someone said they had added about 800 pounds to the F4U-1C.

I looked in my Americas Hundred Thousand book, and there is unfortunately no weight breakdown for the F4U-1C in there- but they do give a weight breakdown for the -1D. Since it also has lists for the weight of the Hispano 20mm cannon and the weight of the ammo, I figured I'd do a quick comparison of the gun weights.

For the F4U-1D- 6 .50s and ammo comes out to 1,123 pounds. (I just used what AHT had listed for the weight)

For the F4U-1C- 4 20mm and 924 rounds of ammo comes out to 1,015 pounds.

If the only difference between the -1D and -1C is the gun installation, shouldn't the C-Hog actually be lighter?

oboe · « **Reply #1 on:** March 29, 2003, 11:56:27 AM »

According to my source (American Warplanes of WWII; Donald)
the F4U-1C was an F4U-1A with cannon armament instead of machine guns. The F4U-1D was the fighter-bomber version with provisions added for bombs, rockets, and drop tanks.

So I think the weight comparison should be with the -1A, not the 1D...

SKurj · « **Reply #2 on:** March 29, 2003, 03:39:57 PM »

I thought the weight difference was actually in the region of 300lbs...

I have readme's dating back to 1.08 and took a look and all I could find was :

Aces High Version 1.08 Changes

Edited flight performance characteristics on the N1K2, F4U-1D, F4U-1C, and P-47D-11.

SKurj

F4UDOA · « **Reply #3 on:** March 31, 2003, 11:32:32 AM »

Urchin,

Here are the charts Pyro used to change the weight of the F4U-1C and F4U-1D. They both gained weight from these charts.

F4U-1C/D weights and performance

The only probelm I have now is that I have found another reference since these charts that points to the F4U-1C being much lighter, around 11,850LBS. It is the 1944 Joint Fighter Report which shows the weights of all A/C tested with a full combat load.

Funny thing with all of the F4U data I have posted (Charts, Graphs, NAVAIR and Vought) the only change I have ever been involved with is the weight gain of the F4U-1D/C (and corresponding change in climb rate for the positive).

However if you read this chart carefully you will notice that the F4U-1D has a max speed on the deck of 366MPH and at 20K of 417MPH without Pylons for bombs and DT's. Unfortunately the F4U-1D and C have the distinction of being the only A/C in AH with drag from external stores Pylons with or without carrying ordinance..

I also have F4U-4 charts (from 1944) that far exceed our F4U-4 in limb performance with 100 octane fuel.

J_A_B · « **Reply #4 on:** March 31, 2003, 02:35:01 PM »

"Unfortunately the F4U-1D and C have the distinction of being the only A/C in AH with drag from external stores Pylons with or without carrying ordinance.. "

The P-51's appear to have the drag from the bomb/DT pylons modeled, even though those pylons aren't visually included in the 3D model. Without those pylons, both 51's would gain around 5-10 MPH from what they do in AH. The P-38L definately has the drag from its "christmas tree" rocket racks included.

The rocket stubs weren't usually removed from the F4U-1D, whether the plane was carrying rockets or not. One must wonder why Vought chose to use such a draggy rocket rail design, when superior 0-length rocket rails were available and being included in other US designs of the time.

J_A_B

F4UDOA · « **Reply #5 on:** March 31, 2003, 03:41:23 PM »

JAB,

I have never seen anything that says a P-51D was any faster than it is here in AH except when adding higher octane fuel.

The P-38 only looses performance from it's rocket rails when you select rockets. It does not have the drag penaly unless you actually select rockets. The F4U-1D has the drag regardless of weather you select nothing or a full load out.

However to say that the F4U-1D used rails and pylons on every mission would be a mistake. If many of these birds were used for CAP missions when hunting Kamikazee's. Which BTW was the main reason for F4U's being put on carriers. Why would the pilots let the ground crew leave them on when it cost the F4U over 10MPH in speed? It would be like hunting for V-1's over Europe with drop tanks on.

BTW. The F4U did use Zero length rails depending on the rocket type. It also carried 11.75 inch rockets, and bombs on it's wings which required more substantial mounts at times.

Red Tail 444 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 31, 2003, 05:16:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by J_A_B
"Unfortunately the F4U-1D and C have the distinction of being the only A/C in AH with drag from external stores Pylons with or without carrying ordinance.. "
J_A_B

It's rather sad that the only corsair that even remotely lives up to its reputation in AH costs 40-100 perks to fly. If the F4U's performed this poorly they never would have seen action in WW2.

Gainsie

Karnak · « **Reply #7 on:** March 31, 2003, 07:32:55 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Red Tail 444
It's rather sad that the only corsair that even remotely lives up to its reputation in AH costs 40-100 perks to fly. If the F4U's performed this poorly they never would have seen action in WW2.

Gainsie

I've always found the F4Us to be among the very easiest aircraft to use and succeed with.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #8 on:** March 31, 2003, 07:39:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Red Tail 444
It's rather sad that the only corsair that even remotely lives up to its reputation in AH costs 40-100 perks to fly. If the F4U's performed this poorly they never would have seen action in WW2.

Gainsie

This tone sounds familiar....

F4UDOA · « **Reply #9 on:** March 31, 2003, 09:11:28 PM »

RedTail,

I find somewhat the opposite.

The F4U-4 here seems lacking to me.

But the F4U-1 really stands out. Check the K/D on the -1, it is quite impressive for a non-cannon A/C in AH. So does the -4 K/D but the way most perk planes are flown it is not surprising.

Grunherz,

Nice Avatar;)

Bodhi · « **Reply #10 on:** March 31, 2003, 09:57:48 PM »

Anyone have a website I can post pics too? I have a 1D converted to a -4 wing in my shop as well as a -4 wing... it shows the different setups... Will post if ya'll like.

Griego · « **Reply #11 on:** April 01, 2003, 01:27:10 AM »

They only thing i miss in the F4U is it's sustained climb. It did have one huge prop.

F4UDOA · « **Reply #12 on:** April 01, 2003, 08:58:45 AM »

Bodhi,

How big are the pics? If they are not too large I can post them.

Griego,

The F4U's performance actually got better when they reduced the length of the prop and increased the width.

Reason being the tips of the prop were reaching to high a mach number and loosing efficiency. The early F4U's were actually faster at lower RPM for this reason.

Red Tail 444 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 01, 2003, 10:38:49 AM »

I wasn't "complaining," per se. I fly the -1 and -4, when not in a Jabo role, and I enjoy the corsairs. The concern I have is the huge discrepancy in climb rate in the non-4's. It just seems to me I can't spiral climb away from a number of rides in here. It might be me, not the plane, so...who knows?

A question I have is why the difference in weight in the C? if it's not accurate, why the weight change increase? And, is it me, or does the C hog feel a little more stable than the Delta (Less nasty stall characteristics)

I think I am nearly 9:1 in the -4, but only 2.5:1 in the -1, but the -4 really gives me the option to run like hell, and I always have to LOL

F4UDOA, can you give me examples where you feel the -4 is inadequate?

Grunherz...yes, this IS a familiar tone, isin't it?

Karnak yes, it is fun to fly, I wouldnt call it easy, however. It took time for me to get dangerous in it.

Bodhi, post the pics here! I'd love to see em.

GAINSIE

F4UDOA · « **Reply #14 on:** April 01, 2003, 10:58:38 AM »

RedTail,

You weren't complaining. That just Grunherz's way of being affectionate, it means he likes you. Just don't let him follow you into any public restrooms:p

Anyway I can do more than tell you what is wrong with the F4U-4, I can just show you. The speed is pretty close but the climb is not.