Author Topic: B-17 & C-47 Ground School  (Read 227 times)

Offline MarkVZ

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B-17 & C-47 Ground School
« on: March 29, 2001, 09:22:00 PM »
Hi guys,
Haven't bothered you in a while, hope you've enjoyed your break  

I am a member of the Yankee Air Force, and this weekend, I am going down-state to attend their B-17 and C-47 ground school.  They fly a very beautiful B-17 "Yankee Lady," one of the best B-17 restorations around, as well as a nice C-47 in the airshow circuits.  Their B-25 is currently down for massive overhaul.  Anyways, this ground school is to keep the pilots and members informed on how to operate these planes.  I figure that this is a rare opportuinity to learn some hard facts about these aircraft andhow they are operated.  

I was just wondering if anyone was seeking any specific information about these aircraft  and how they operate that I could obtain this weekend.  This is my first time attending so I don't know what to expect exactly, but I figure I could try to get questions answered if possible.  

While I'm on the topic of the Yankee Air Force, I am crew chief of the restoration of a 1941 Stinson 10A.  This is a small, single engine plane that could seat three.  About twenty of them were used in military service during WWII.  Mine was used as a CAP plane, probably a sub spotter, out of Jacksonville, Florida during the war.
You can see my ever growing webpage on this project at:  http://www.i-star.com/users/markvz/stin10a.html  

If you're interested, check back often as I'm  constantly updating things.

-MarkVZ-

Offline Tac

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B-17 & C-47 Ground School
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2001, 10:30:00 PM »
Sure! See if the ball turret can fire at something 5 degrees+ above the tail.

Offline MarkVZ

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B-17 & C-47 Ground School
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2001, 05:04:00 AM »
HeHe  

I'd probaby get a few strange looks  

-MarkVZ-

Offline MarkVZ

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B-17 & C-47 Ground School
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2001, 04:14:00 PM »
Well, I won't bore you guys with the details, but here are a few interesting things I learned this weekend.

Interestingly enough, when a C-47 has both props in the inverted Y position and stopped with the gear retracted, it can land with very minimal damage.  It rolls on the mostly retracted wheels and the brakes do work.  No damage will be done to the engine.  So when someone ditches a C-47 wheels up and engines out/off in AH, it should roll.

The YAF's B-17 is one of the most complete and original B17's out there.  This includes the ball turret.  There is an orientation guage in the ball turret so that the gunner can orient himself with the o'clock positions using the guage.  I will draw one from memory, as I think it would be a great addition to the game.

And no, the ball turret gunner was never locked in there.  They rarely rode in the turret on takeoff and landing.  They got in it in flight by moving the guns th the downward-vertical position, moving the hatch into the fuselage.  When the Germans saw the ball turret straight down, they weren't as reluctant to attack.  Interestingly, by the end of the war, the ball turret was the most surviveable position on the B17.

Also, the B17 could lose any one (or maybe two) gear and the ball turret will not touch the ground unless something major breaks.

I can only imagine how a crew got out of the B17 as it was going down, as it isn't that easy to get from one end to the other.

On this plane there is an oil temp (or pressure) guage on the inside of the #2 and #3 cowlings to read from the cockpit.

The 17 also has extinguishers for each engine.  You get two shots at it then it's gone.  In the C47, you only get one shot.  It would be cool to have extinguishers in AH.

The B-17 had everything electrically operated, with the hydraulic system just operating the cowl flaps.  There was a crank-port for nearly everything electrically driven, so if the motor burnt out, you could crank em, just like in Memphis Belle.  The cranks are located in the radio operator's compartment.  This while the C-47 is mostly hydraulic.

Both the C47 and B17 have an Oil Dilution System in which prior to flying in very cold weather, gasoline is injected into the oil to thin it.

Also, the supercharger setting was variable.  On a range from 1-10, it was normally operated in 7 or 8, being safety wired not to pass 8.  In a bad situation, the crew could break the safety wire and put the superchargers on 9 or 10, letting them get home faster.  This would of course, ruin the engines after prolonged running.  Sorta like a WEP for buffs.

Well if I think of anything else I'll post it.  It was a fun experience  

-MarkVZ-




[This message has been edited by MarkVZ (edited 04-02-2001).]

Offline DB603

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B-17 & C-47 Ground School
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2001, 04:37:00 PM »
S!

 Very interesting first hand info of the B17.Thanx!Even it is a hard nut to kill in MA,I like the B17's appearance.Kinda sharky  Just keep the data flowing!Good stuff for those who can't see these birds IRL.



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DB603
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Offline MarkVZ

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B-17 & C-47 Ground School
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2001, 05:18:00 PM »
Well, I just made a picture of this guage for the ball turret gunner from memory.

   

It is located right next to the ball turret gunners round aiming window, at just lower than the 3 o'clock position.  This Guage is aproximately 2.5 inches in diameter.  This guage allows him to get right to the o'clock positions when called on.  Since to aim the gun, the gunner's whole body turns, it's easy to get disoriented, hence the guage.

Also, I can assure you that it is physically impossible for the ball turret gunner to press his nose against the glass as is possible now.

Also, the ball turret gunner had electrically warmed pants, coat, and gloves which he plugged in to the turret when he got in.

On early model B17's, the ammo was contained in the turret and the gunners parachute was in the fuselage near the turret.  In later versions, the ammo was fed from boxes in the fuselage down into the turret, and the ball turret gunner wore his chute.  He had a seat belt behind him incase the hatch (which is located at his back) fell off or was shot off to prevent him from falling out.  The ball turret is made from cast aluminum and is much thicker than the material the fuselage is made of.

-MarkVZ-

[This message has been edited by MarkVZ (edited 04-02-2001).]

Offline loser

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B-17 & C-47 Ground School
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2001, 07:06:00 PM »
awesome mark!!! and may i say: you lucky bastage!!!!

i really like the turret "compass"
i fly the b17 almost all the time and if in the ball turret, i ten to get a little disoreinted and the implementation of this guage would be a great help. ( as well as being just fun to look at.)

keep it coming!