Wounded POW rescue.

[miko2d]

Smut: The mistreatment of US female POW's was suppressed after the war by a certain female former congresswomen pushing for more combat roles for women.

 That brings a similar dilemma. Publicise it and the public will demand their heads and possibly get them - even though we did not capture Iraq then but crtainly now.

 But in the future the POWs will more likely to get killed in addition of being raped - much like increase of punishment for other crimes than murder prompts criminals to kill the witnesses.

 I do not have an opinion about that. The only way seems to hold government responcible for the actions of the subordinates so they take all measures to protect the POW.
 Which may still leave the perpetrators to kill the abused to hide the fact from their own superiors - like soviet troops did in Afghanistan. After a body has been ground under the APC tracks, its' hard to say whether she was raped or not...

 War is hell.  

 miko

[Kanth]

Originally posted by miko2d

 First, if you do not see it, it does not necessarily mean it's not there.

the same can be said for God.

Second, who are they you are talking about? Certainly the afghans skin their prisoners and then keep them alive for days while chechens cut their throats while Iraqis seem to treat at least one of them in the hospital and returned a few alive and germans usually treated US POWs reasonably well, etc.

"They"...would be Iraqi's, that's where the war is. And they appear to have treated more than one in a hospital but "treatment" in this case means torture and murder of them, of which we have found evidence.

 It looks like treating US prisoners humanely gives the weakness for us to exploit.

because she was found in a 'hospital' doesn't mean she was being treated humanely, miko, is my point. I think you are assuming too much here.

It's just a building like any other building they use for military purpose, they are hoping, I think that we will find significance in it being a "hospital" rather than just any other building..

 As for giving us a weakness for them to exploit, I don't see how not rescuing a POW from a hospital in a specific mission makes us weaker?

morale. If the troops know they will be left behind, because they are located in a "Hospital" even though they are being tortured and murdered in it..it will hurt morale (which is a huge understatement)

 We can still attack their military facilities even if that means killing our own POWs, so they can not exploit POW as "human shields".

 That is true. Although we tend to rescue our people instead of blowing them up with the building if possible.

[john9001]

actualy the US troops did not have to "attack" the "hospital", they knocked on the door and said "we bad, give us the girl and we won't throw you off the roof"

[Nash]

I don't understand the hostility... Seemed like a reasonable question to me. It doesn't appear that Miko is suggesting that rescue operations shouldn't be undertaken if the prisoner is being held in a hospital - only that perhaps such an operation shouldn't be publicised (he italicised that word). It makes a certain amount of sense to me...  

Now maybe he hasn't considered something (that I can't think of either)... but since when should someone be so totally insulted for being concerned about the POW's ability to get medical treatment or the military's ability to conduct future rescues as a result of the details of this particular rescue being made public?

I must be missing something...

[lord dolf vader]

smut you got a cite on the sexual mistreatment ?

not callin you a liar but the only two women i saw as pow last war both said they were not assaulted sexualy.


are there others ? or have they changed their story?

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by miko2d
thus endangering the lives of our future wounded POWs?
 

No one gets left behind.

True it might mean that there is a higher risk that the next POW gets a shot in the head instead of medical treatment.

BUT

No one gets left behind.

That is worth so much more for the troops moral to know. If you are captured, we will do our utmost to come and get you. So you have to weigh the increased risk for future prisoners against the moral effects on the own troops.

BECAUSE

The alternative would be to tell the troops that "if you are captured and we know where you are, we are not coming for you because that might make it harder for others to surrender in the future."

(Is it just me or does that sound oh-so-very-French?)

THAT is unacceptable, and would wreak havoc on unit moral.

[Kanth]

Wonder why that is...

Funny how people make a huge deal of sexual assault of female soldiers during wartime as though it is something different than the torture and murder of our male soldiers, as if it is somehow more important..

makes me sick.

Originally posted by Smut

The mistreatment of US female POW's was suppressed after the war by a certain female former congresswomen pushing for more combat roles for women.

-Smut

[anonymous]

miko there was a military HQ located in that hospital. no one knows the real story yet but just as possible is the fact that she was there because it was a military HQ that happened to be in a hospital. also the skinning of soviet soldiers by afghani tribesmen, while totally unacceptable to any professional soldier might have had something to do with the intentional targeting of villages women and children for elimination by soviet military as a way to remove support base for afghani guerilla fighters.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Kanth
Wonder why that is...

Funny how people make a huge deal of sexual assault of female soldiers during wartime as though it is something different than the torture and murder of our male soldiers, as if it is somehow more important..

makes me sick.

Its a guy-thing Kanth. We just want to be knights in shining armor sometimes and protect the girls.

Frankly, I think its in our genes.

[Kanth]

I think he enjoys being provocative. (like airhead enjoys trolling)

 I think it's deliberate in order to get responses, rather than being a culteral or language difference.

 I think people get frustrated with it in time. (or right away in some cases)

sort of like the media.

Originally posted by Nash
I don't understand the hostility... Seemed like a reasonable question to me.
I must be missing something...

[Martlet]

Originally posted by miko2d
Oh, Mighty1

 I appreciate your effort but I put Mar on the ignore list not because he particularly offends me but because none of his posts so far contained an iota of information.

 I will certainly appreciate if it is brough to my attention when he breaks that rule in any of his posts and writes anything worth reading, but the one you've quoted for me here was a waste of effort.

 miko

Translation:

Martlet has made me look like an idiot far to often.  If I put him on ignore, I won't reply to his posts, thus giving him the opportunity to do it yet again.

[Nash]

Miko - is my reading comprehension screwed this morning or does your post say that you don't question the rescue operation, just questioning making the details public?

[Kanth]

Sorry Hortlund, I was being a smartass (read: ), I didn't actually require an explanation.  

 It's origins can be debated, but not in this thread.  

Originally posted by Hortlund
Its a guy-thing Kanth. We just want to be knights in shining armor sometimes and protect the girls.

Frankly, I think its in our genes.

[anonymous]

in terms of planning you have to assume they went in after her because the planner did not feel that she was safe in current situation even if she was in hospital. miko you know i think because you were in military. the guy planning the op is never going to say "well shes being mistreated but if we go after her then in some future conflict is possible our pow not treated at hospital". besides look at the history American pow havent been treated decently since second world war. in korea war American pow found hands bound behind back and shot by chinese and north korean. American pow tortured in VN. to be honest i cant think of country America could wind up at war with over next twenty or thirty years that will treat pow appropriately. russian army would treat them fairly i think, but cant imagine us at war with russian army.

[Martlet]

Originally posted by anonymous
russian army would treat them fairly i think, but cant imagine us at war with russian army.

Yeah, just ask the chechs