Wounded POW rescue.

[Kanth]

Originally posted by miko2d

 All I've heard they found a car battery in some room. I immediately though - how carefull they are providing backup power for some medical equipment in case the power goes down due to some bombing. What, did you hear more details than that?

the bed was bare metal and the car battery was attached to the metal of the bed directly.

Could it be called humane, compared to, say beating or sleep deprivation?

torture by any means isn't humane treatment.

 I guess if we announce in advance to any particular country which policy we are going to conduct in any given conflict and abide by it, we may not have them using Iraqi experience when we invade them.

 Or just bomb them an have a pilot shot down or something. But I am not entirely sure.

 'Which policy we are going to conduct' in regards to what? rescuing our POW's? Or showing it on the media?

[Dingbat]

Originally posted by miko2d


 Women have very fragile bones compared to men and are naturally clumsy - also relative to men, especially the clerk types, so once they start jumping from moving vehicles with greandes exploding all over the place, you are bound to have a few broken bones.

I hardly believe that, but then depending on the type of break.  You still have to exert a lot of force to break bones

[krazyhorse]

if the iraqi's are willing to use mosque's as cover and feild hq's  what nake you think they aren't doing it with hostpitals, also i think she probly was sexually assualted:(

[Sox62]

Originally posted by miko2d
Sox62: If you don't already understand "why",there's no way I could explain it to you.

 If myself or my son is a prisoner in iraqi hands, I do not want you to throw his life away for some publicity campaign - as simple as that. Tens of thousands americans survived WWII captivity. Wounded bomber crewmen were parachuted into enemy hands rather than risk dieing in flight. miko

Remember,YOU opened this can of worms,not me.

Since you are using the Germans in WWII to show how "tens of thousands of Americans survived",perhaps you could tell me how the Jews viewed German imprisonment.Those that actually survived that is.

Counting on  goodwill from a country your at war with is foolish.

But let's not stop there.Since you are bringing up past conflicts as an example,here is another one.

You are a Russian prisoner of Afghanistan in the early 80's.Yep,much better to depend on surviving till the conflict is over than a rescue eh?

My apologies to any German or Jewish folk here.I just wanted to shoot his WWII example down.

[Kanth]

Because she's a 'clerk type' and a woman she tripped in all of the overwhelming excitement and broke two legs and an arm.

how she raped herself in that condition we'll never know.

maybe clerk types are more flexible and don't really feel pain.

[Mathman]

If you take the time to read this article, you will see why they went in to rescue the POW.

Just in case you don't feel like clicking the link, I will post the interesting quote here:

       Planning for the rescue started when an An Nasiriyah resident passed Marines a note that said she was being held at a hospital being used as a headquarters by Iraqi forces, Sanders reported. The note even mentioned what room she was in.

        Separately, Sanders was approached by an English-speaking resident who said a female U.S. soldier was being held at the hospital.
       “Please make sure the people in charge know that she’s being tortured,” the resident claimed.

Sounds like a good reason to me to go get a POW.  Then again, maybe we should just let her continue to be tortured.

[batdog]

Originally posted by miko2d
Sox62: If you don't already understand "why",there's no way I could explain it to you.

 If myself or my son is a prisoner in iraqi hands, I do not want you to throw his life away for some publicity campaign - as simple as that. Tens of thousands americans survived WWII captivity. Wounded bomber crewmen were parachuted into enemy hands rather than risk dieing in flight.

Intentionally NOT rescue someone,when their location is known,and it's a doable mission?

 Why not just wait for end-of-war prisoner's exchange. Holding people prisoner of war is a long tradition in warfare.


You don't leave a fallen soldier behind. Ever.

 That's BS. It kills our soldiers for no better reason than to make armchair generals like you feel good for a day. You start throwing lives away for the sake of propaganda, and you get all all kinds of negative side effects. Not just of enemy refusing medical treatment to POWs.

  An order to never leave wounded to the enemy and risk one's life trying to get him out or order to rescue such wounded even if his life is not in danger or regardless, will just result in more wounded being killed by their comrades in order to avoid their capture or getting hit dragging them out. You won't see that in newspapers but it happens in real life.

 I do not want to use my soviet experience but I talked to some people that went thrugh Vietnam and they said the same to my surprise - US units in bad situations were sometimes napalmed/bombed rather than risk more lives and helicopters during a rescue/extraction or let them fall into the enemy hands and expose a planning screw-up.


batdog: We do not like to leave our people under hostile hands after what happened to our indiv's in Vietnam.

 But those captured in the first Gulf War ended up alive if somewhat traumatised.

 miko

Golly-geen..I'm being called an armchair general now. Your a pure clueless ****.

Okay..let me make it simple. The so called HOSPITAL she was in was being used as a COMMAND and CONTROL base of operations. It was a hospital in NAME only.

The TREATMENT of said POW as in doubt... thus we went in and took her out.

As far as being some sort of armchair general that would seem to fall into a ****tards lap like yourself salamander. I was a notta but a non-com glorified grunt w/is simply not on the same level of intel like smart guys such as yourself.

Once again... despite all your typing and "rational" discussion you havent a clue.

Oh..and as far as being a publicity stunt..once again..your ****ing clueless. Tell HER that or the guys that went in to GET her. Jesus your so full of sh*& I can smell it from here.

[Kanth]

Originally posted by Mathman

Just in case you don't feel like clicking the link, I will post the interesting quote here:

thanks for the link, I read the article.

I'll be very curious to see what she has to say, when she's ready to say it.

[Mini D]

Sorry miko... you're still not doing anything other than stretch this as far as you can.  Its really quite simple.

We will do whatever we can to get our troops back.  This is a nessity since you are asking them to put themselves in harm's way.  The Ranger's moto is "no man left behind."  They swear by it.  You would not have made it there.  The first time you said, "well... let's evaluate the consequences of getting him out of there... I'm worried about its impact on future conflicts." you would have been transfered somewhere else... with a newly aquired limp.

You do everything to rescue POWs.  If that's too confusing for you, there's this aproach: We do everything to rescue POWs, you sit back and pretend it shouldn't be done because of some neurotic worries about what "might" happen in the future.

Someone was saved in the here and now.  That is worthy of thanks.  This thread is worthy of despise.  To question after-the-fact a rescue and downplay it as a negative for all future POWs is pathetic.  That is not an over reaction.  The POWs need to know there is hope.  The soldiers need to know there is hope.  They are all that matters.  The guy sitting in the Lazyboy playing armchair analist means absolutely nothing and deserves their scorn (and receives mine too).

Damn... trying to stop typing but its just so stupid that this is being discussed.  Miko... do you have any idea how many soldiers were lost in Vietnam recovering downed pilots?  Do you know why they will continue to give their lives to do so?

MiniD

[Martlet]

Originally posted by anonymous
russia wasnt risking nuclear exchange with cZechs by invading them. russia and American both know limited conflict with other very good chance of get out of control.

threat of a nuclear exchange effects your treatment of POWs how?

[miko2d]

krazyhorse: if the iraqi's are willing to use mosque's as cover and feild hq's  what nake you think they aren't doing it with hostpitals,

 What make you think this thread is about that rather than safery of our POWs in the future wars with enemies other than iraqis?

also i think she probly was sexually assualted

 So you want to prevent the next US POW that is sexually assaulted from being treated in the hospital and left to die of wounds in prison?
 Because move to the hospital did not cause her to be sexually assaulted and that is what current publicised rescue is going to dissuade.

Sox62: Counting on goodwill from a country your at war with is foolish.

 Tens of thousands of americans did and were better off for it. Of curse US aviation could have bombed the camps in order to let the prisoners scatter - even dropped some weapons. That would have ended in death of most of them and death of future americans who would not be taked as prisoner, but some would have escaped.
 Is that what you would have done? Killed all those americans for publisity sake?

You are a Russian prisoner of Afghanistan in the early 80's.Yep,much better to depend on surviving till the conflict is over than a rescue eh?

 You should read the posts you are replying to. Seriously. Or you should check your short-term memory. I've addressed that. Jessica was not found being skinned - neither were dozens of POWs from the first Gulf War.

 Kanth: how she raped herself in that condition we'll never know.

 Is that confirmed? Do you already know how she got hurt? My MSN link is not responding.

 “Please make sure the people in charge know that she’s being tortured,” the resident claimed.

Mathman: Sounds like a good reason to me to go get a POW.

 It sure does - whether true or not, I wish they started with that explanation. It would have been a great message - "You torture our POWs and we will come and get you."

 Much better that "You provide medical treatment to our POWs and we will come and get you!", wouldn't you say?


 Batdog - take a deep breath. If you are of such obviously low opinion of me, is it worth getting a stroke over what I think? Put me on ignore or something.

 miko

[Kanth]

Ya but it passes the work day during the slow times..

Originally posted by Mini D

Damn... trying to stop typing but its just so stupid that this is being discussed.  
MiniD

[Kanth]

Originally posted by miko2d

 Kanth: how she raped herself in that condition we'll never know.

 Is that confirmed? Do you already know how she got hurt? My MSN link is not responding.
 
 miko

ya it was just on CNN, PFC Jessica Lynch somehow managed to rape herself with two broken legs and a broken arm.

I'm considering not responding as well, but the boredom is too thick around here.

[batdog]

Originally posted by miko2d
krazyhorse: if the iraqi's are willing to use mosque's as cover and feild hq's  what nake you think they aren't doing it with hostpitals,

 What make you think this thread is about that rather than safery of our POWs in the future wars with enemies other than iraqis?

also i think she probly was sexually assualted

 So you want to prevent the next US POW that is sexually assaulted from being treated in the hospital and left to die of wounds in prison?
 Because move to the hospital did not cause her to be sexually assaulted and that is what current publicised rescue is going to dissuade.

Sox62: Counting on goodwill from a country your at war with is foolish.

 Tens of thousands of americans did and were better off for it. Of curse US aviation could have bombed the camps in order to let the prisoners scatter - even dropped some weapons. That would have ended in death of most of them and death of future americans who would not be taked as prisoner, but some would have escaped.
 Is that what you would have done? Killed all those americans for publisity sake?

You are a Russian prisoner of Afghanistan in the early 80's.Yep,much better to depend on surviving till the conflict is over than a rescue eh?

 You should read the posts you are replying to. Seriously. Or you should check your short-term memory. I've addressed that. Jessica was not found being skinned - neither were dozens of POWs from the first Gulf War.

 Kanth: how she raped herself in that condition we'll never know.

 Is that confirmed? Do you already know how she got hurt? My MSN link is not responding.

 “Please make sure the people in charge know that she’s being tortured,” the resident claimed.

Mathman: Sounds like a good reason to me to go get a POW.

 It sure does - whether true or not, I wish they started with that explanation. It would have been a great message - "You torture our POWs and we will come and get you."

 Much better that "You provide medical treatment to our POWs and we will come and get you!", wouldn't you say?


 Batdog - take a deep breath. If you are of such obviously low opinion of me, is it worth getting a stroke over what I think? Put me on ignore or something.

 miko

Miko... I am acting like crass foam spewing ******* because I wore a scroll on my shoulder at one time that had a creed about never leaving a comrade to fall into the hands of the enemy. It was an unspoken rule that if we can get your bellybutton home we will..or die trying.

I am sorry about going all hardcore in these posts but my convections are strong, fanactical even.

[miko2d]

Mini D: We will do whatever we can to get our troops back.

 Not arguing about that. Just that the safest way for those - and future POWs - to get back may be to wait in captivity till teh end of war or get rescued quietly without a huge publisity campaign.

 Real soldeirs do not care if the rescue they performed is trumpeted or not - saving a buddy and a medal should be enough of a reward.


You do everything to rescue POWs.

 No we don't - we left plenty of people stay as POWs for a while in all our wars.

Damn... trying to stop typing but its just so stupid that this is being discussed.  Miko... do you have any idea how many soldiers were lost in Vietnam recovering downed pilots?

 Those pilots were in real danger, I guess. We value our pilots. Do you know how many soldeirs were napalmed or killed by "misplaced" artillery barrage to avoid losses during the extraction? What, you did not read about it in the newspapers? How strange...

I am sorry about going all hardcore in these posts but my convections are strong, fanactical even.

 As hard as it may be for you to believe - the safety of pur troops is my first concern. Just becasue I am looking at it differently, does not make my concern any less genuine.

 miko