Porked.

[Westy]

 This is what I was talking about yesterday. Me in a P-38, two guys in F4u-1C's.  Same thing, same ending. No lead turn.

 -Westy

*not waiving a hack flag. just raising my hand in solidarity to say something feels wrong to me. And I very very rarely, if ever, mention suspicions on any aircrafts FM, anywhere - well, except FA  

[Cobra]

 

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Film every engagement. I have a hot key set up so when I hit wep on, film goes on too.

I have a hot key setup so when I hit wep it......oops, wrong forum, sorry guys.  (Geez you'd think I would learn to look at the banners by now, yikes).

Cobra

[whels1]

So i have had p51s and tyhpi's do the same thing. just because he is lower doesnt mean
he has less E then u.

ive killed many a pilot in AW with the dive to lower with speed before vis, and they
think im lower n slower and boom  they ded.

whels
 

Originally posted by fscott:
I'm not one to be cynical and you can check my posts and see that I haven't been critical at all of any of this sims points, but I've seen something that makes me wonder about the C-Hog's flight modelling.

I am flying along direct at a C-HOG at my 12 o'clock low I had a good 2-3k on him. I am flying at AOA of -25 degrees, and my speed indicated very close to 400mph.  When we are about 1.2 clicks from each other he begins his incline.  He passes below me and I do nothing with the stick, just continue on at roughly 400mph.  I pivot my head around to see what he does. Right out of a Star War's clip he does a complete 180, and is on my six at about 1 click.  IMMEDIATELY he begins to gain on me rapidly. SO rapidly that I had only enough time to start my split-S and start for the dirt when I hear the thunderous pings hitting my plane. I am dumbfounded.

I am not ignorant to the posts on this board about the debate between the C-hog's flight model, but I can't be quiet now that I have witnessed this phenomenon.  I know what someone is going to say: warping, thats the internet. Hm, funny I've never seen this happen when fighting any other birds, and I've never witnessed this specific phenomenon in warpville WB.

I am not taking sides at all on this matter. The title is to catch your attention, and the post is to make my incident known.  But I think this is something that HT should look at very closely. It has all but ruined my opinion on the quality of AH's flight models. Now I wonder what else is off.

fscott

[Apache]

A point to consider.....

We, VMF 323, have been noticeing something peculiar. One of our squaddies, Rangrbob, is ALWAYS slower than the rest of us. When we fly in formation, as we normally do, we constantly pull away from him or fly right past him. Yes, same this same that. His system is faster than mine with more ram, better video, etc.
Its really weird. This happens ALL the time. No warps, nothing. He is simply slower.

Could this be happening to others, therefore, that is why enemy closure speed seems impossible? Could this be affecting what you see, which is actually a simple lead turn? My brother, Comanche, uses the lead turn all the time and sometimes it looks (from my FE) impossible that he is able to make that shot. I know he is not a hacker. I am the computer guy (professionally) of the family. He calls me to fix the problems  .

Just a thought.

------------------
Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site

[whels1]

i remember on the other A sim, a post where 1 of the head guys said that, connection can have an effect on plane preformance vs another pilot and his/her con.
ie.. both in same plane, but the 1 with
a better con gets updated more often
therefor seem to be faster even though
in same plane and same situation.

whels
 

Originally posted by Apache:
A point to consider.....

We, VMF 323, have been noticeing something peculiar. One of our squaddies, Rangrbob, is ALWAYS slower than the rest of us. When we fly in formation, as we normally do, we constantly pull away from him or fly right past him. Yes, same this same that. His system is faster than mine with more ram, better video, etc.
Its really weird. This happens ALL the time. No warps, nothing. He is simply slower.

Could this be happening to others, therefore, that is why enemy closure speed seems impossible? Could this be affecting what you see, which is actually a simple lead turn? My brother, Comanche, uses the lead turn all the time and sometimes it looks (from my FE) impossible that he is able to make that shot. I know he is not a hacker. I am the computer guy (professionally) of the family. He calls me to fix the problems   .

Just a thought.

[WarChild]

Well i didn't believe any of these whines until it happened to me last night.

Flying the 109 g6 coming out of a shallow dive going 400 mph, i spot a niki 500 feet below me and 800 yards out..

I pull up to the level and plan to just blast right by, this sucker went verticle nosed over and got on my 6 at d 500.

Ok thats plausible.. net lag and all he coulda pulled up and over early to get on my 6 .. no big deal.

so i do some minor rolls and weaves, just enuf so he can't get guns....

I SHOULD HAVE out ran him, HE DID just do a imellean, BUT NO.. this sucker gained on me FAST and opened up all the way from his initial d500 to d350.

I was 109 g6 doing 400 mph... that niki has to strain to get to 400 mph...

Thats my life.. wish i had film.


------------------
WarChild
VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~
"Where's the Charmin!"

[Yeager]

Look guys, Im not sure what going on.  Im afraid Im just not in a position to make an educated judgement on "why" something happens regarding any particular FM performance.

I just tell you what Ive seen and hope that guys like Funked and Wells can look into it and figure out if something is amiss.

Apparently though, nothing is wrong.

Yeager

[Hooligan]

Yeager:

Just try to be diligent about filming stuff.  If you capture something "interesting" on film then it will be much easier for Wells etc.. to analyze what actually happened.

Hooligan

[hblair]

   

Originally posted by funked:
 People are simply getting beat by better pilots, and instead of working on their own ACM skills and knowledge, they take the easy route and try to blame the software.

Preach on, brother funked, I think you're kind of like I am in the respect that it takes something very weird before I'm going to say anything, and thats only on my roger wilco channel.  

I remember about 1 1/2 years ago on WB's I started a thread on AGW about what was then considered the 'uber' plane from WB's, the spit 9. I was flying along in the Historical Arena in a 109g at 20k, or so.
 I met a spitfire that approached from my slightly low 12 o'clock. I stayed straight and watched him do a turn around on me, and gain and kill me. It sounds like the exact same circumstance fscott is talking about here. I was abso-damn-lutely sure that I was right, then people like -rfa- and others explained that the guy simply had more energy than me, and that he had apparently lead turned me. This mad me crazy, they didn't see what I saw!.     I shouldn't have posted that thread, as it just fed the old "FM is porked" witch hunt that was brewing at thhe time. I'm not saying that fscott shouldn't have posted this thread, or that he is wrong.

I'm just saying that it sounds like a lead turn performed by a skilled pilot and a plane that had a full head of steam going, plain and simple.



[This message has been edited by hblair (edited 10-21-2000).]

[Westy]

Whels, it was nose to nose merge, I had 3K alt, blasted by them at 450+mph, they reversed and caught me. I did not turn back. I did not bleed much if any E, yet they should have.

 Funked... Better pilots?  I'll be the first to salute anyone who shoots me down. As for what happened the other day, I can't even remember the name of the guy who shot me down but I've never saw him before (which is not an indication of good skill or bad I know!)
 Nose-nose merge. Not a lead turn, they reversed 2K plus after I've passed by and yet they catch up in level flight and, well with the C guns, you know the rest.

 And I know about all about the effects of net lag and net burps.

 All I can do is second Yeagers last remarks. And also, in this instance it was a case of "it takes something very weird" that lead me to remark about what I've seen. I'm a card carrying AH cheerleader -if there had ever been any doubt.

  -Westy

[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 10-21-2000).]

[GRUNHERZ]

Hi

109 G10 and SpitIX merge coalt and CoE at about 6k. At the merge neither of us has dived or climbed, we were even througut the merge. Just after we pass he pulls a hard reverse, just like an immelman, but much tighter and and more like a tight break turn in the vertical. I look back the distance is 900, then 850, then 800, then 700 then I get shot. All did was pull a gentle zoom climb, and he pulled this 180degree hard turn and he caught me the outaccelerated a G10 after he pulled a tight turn. I dont think its a hacker I do think its a FM problem.  Second example take a N1K2 and shut its engine off. Start pulling 3 or 4 tight turns and watch the speedo. The damn thing will keep its speed with no power and might even register some acceleration. Also there is something very artifical in its reluctance to drop below about 200mph, Its often very frustrating on landings as the damn speed just dont want to drop below 200 no matter how much you wiggle or even cut power. Basically the problem here seems to be that planes carry way too much E and speed through the manouvers. This is also why we see more of the lunatic style evasive manouvers like stalling out and spinning to avoid a gun pass, cuz we can now recover almost instantly and still have E to climb or turn, or to evade another pass.

thanks GRUNHERZ

[fscott]

One point not mentioned, is that I have never witnessed this in WB.  I *have* seen a plane that was 5 clicks out then suddenly sweeps to 15 clicks in a split second, I understand that is net lag, and happens quit often in WB but rarely in AH, that is a good thing.  But I have never witnessed the phenomenon where a slower plane actually catches up with me.

Perhaps it does have to do with connection speed and quality, and perhaps AH just has a finer internet routine which capitilizes on better connections.  Obviously AH does have a little better routine since warps are rare copmpared to WB.  Personally though, I would rather see warps than this strange phenomenon of massive E retention.

Additionally, I have of course battled with numerous C-Hogs and have never witnessed this until the other night.  SO either the pilot knew how utilize a bug in the C-Hogs FM or it was an internet connection phenomenon.

Regardless, if it was internet related I wonder I haven't seen this in WB for the last 2 years that I've flown on and off.

fscott

[minus]

well aslo hate the UFo planes, but discovered something interesant , it begin in WB times when we fly a big scenario like a buffs all go level full trotle same cap first 10 minit i have solid conect but after beginin have lot of yelow beacon next 5 minit i the red yelow gren  no disco the
other 20 buf still behind me up to 5k when my beacon become stable gren

in AH just check the netstatus!!!!
sometime with squadis or other  enemy or frendly planes  and netstatus sho  Ok and now coming the UFo plane all the frendly no warp  nobady see a warp but UFo begin pull a incredible manovers fast  and deadly u finish on bail or dead jsut check after the NEt staus your netstaus have a MEGA EXTREME piles  nobady confirm warps  

 DESINCHRONIZATION  from host ?????  o a new trick ,or a UDp vs CTP player ????????
the Host sometime show a bunch of nonsens i em prety sure

[fscott]

GRUNHERZ, I agree.  Perhaps E-retention is overdone. This would explain why planes can do 180 turns and then catch up to others.

It is amzazing how long you can glide at 200 feet off the ground in any plane with your engine cut off. Does anyone else find this strange?  Perhaps we shoudl film this and then let people see this.

fscott

[flakbait]

I've got film of my F4U-1D in a simulated carrier landing. It's nothing special, just film from takeoff to landing. Dload and watch it. I've got no problems bleeding E; the reason is the landing gear. Note my speed up until I dump the gear. Power off with any aircraft and there's hardly any drag even while level. Dump one notch of flaps, or your gear, and watch your speed run away like Pyro did when he saw Ripsnort without his make-up  

Any radial engine is basically a big bucket and a huge source of drag with no power. Amazing how the Niki can glide forever with a 55 gallon drum welded to the front end. I think it's just not enough power-off drag on the airframes. With power on the aircraft should remain more or less the same, but with no power they should lose speed just a tad faster.

As for UFO-like behavior, I'll keep an eye out and film anything funny I spot in H2H.

[helps if I add the dload link, don't it]

------------------
Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School
"My art is the wings of an aircraft through the skies, my music the deep hum of a prop as it slices the air, my thrill the thunder of guns tearing asunder an enemy plane."
Flakbait
19 September 2000

[This message has been edited by flakbait (edited 10-21-2000).]