We Ain't Got No Stinkin' Weapons!!

[Mini D]

Weazel was banned a couple weeks ago.  Go to http://forums.checksix.net if you really miss his rantings.

MiniD

[Sandman]

Let's see... the first link that says that Marines from the 101st Airborne discovered the missiles is a poor summation of the NPR report found here: mms://216.35.221.84/me/20030407_me_18.wma  (sorry... cut and paste to the browser)

The other says 14 barrels of nerve agent but no mention of missiles. It does say, "We’re talking about finding a site of possible WMD [Weapons of Mass Destruction] storage. This is an initial report, but it could be a smoking gun..."

and

"...it is not clear if the facility is a nerve agent site or merely an agricultural facility."

I'm not sure how the two stories are related. Most if not all insecticides are in fact nerve agents.

The U.S. has already decided that the Iraq is in breach of UN Resolution 1441. I'm not sure how these stories makes any difference other than being an attempt to use the ends to justifiy the means.

Call me skeptical, but right now I think there is more to this story.

[NUKE]

I heard on the radio that Chirq said if any WMD are found in Iraq, he will assume America planted them there.

Chiraq said that the only way he will believe WMD are in Iraq is when the UN says it's true.

Gotta love that worm.

[Pepe]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM

The U.S. has already decided that the Iraq is in breach of UN Resolution 1441. I'm not sure how these stories makes any difference other than being an attempt to use the ends to justifiy the means.

You can't come to that conclusion until war is over and WMD are not effectively found. Until that happens, I (and is my particular choice) give the benefit of the doubt to the U.S., definitely not to Saddam.

[crowMAW]

Let's not jump the gun on the chemical/agricultural site yet...both sarin and tabun have legitimate uses as pesticides. Plus, other pesticides are chemically similar to tabun and serin since they are organophosphates and can give false positives.

If the lewisite is confirmed, that would be pretty damning, as it has no other purpose than to kill people.

And to put the "cache" of BM-21 "medium range" missiles into perspective...well, that is a 122mm multiple rocket launch (MRL) system that is akin to artillery, which was developed by the Soviets in the '50s....on the low end of medium range (about 15-20 miles).  The "cache" of 20 rounds would be half a standard 40 round rack (probably left over from the Iran-Iraq War...I wonder if it was found with a bunch of other conventional BM-21 racks).  Does anyone know right off the size area that 20 rounds would create sufficient concentration of airborne sarin to be lethal?  I heard an expert on Fox who said that for a chemical attack via artillery to be effective over a battlefield size area you have to fire hundreds of chemical rounds.

I'm glad we have found something...our credibility will be much worse if we don't.

[sling322]

Hmmm...back home we always put our pesticides in sprayers and what not.  I guess missiles are more efficient?

And if the second site is "just an agricultural site"....why hide the barrels in the ground covered up with leaves as the story says?

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Something just occured to me... WTF is Weazel?  Did I miss the ban party?  

Weazels been banned, he's trying to get banned over at AGW too, but their censors aren't as hard-nosed.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Pepe
You can't come to that conclusion until war is over and WMD are not effectively found. Until that happens, I (and is my particular choice) give the benefit of the doubt to the U.S., definitely not to Saddam.

I phrased that poorly. Put it this way... There better be more, a lot more. I hardly consider a few short range rockets and some barrels of insecticide to be a "threat to world peace."

I'm not drawing any conclusions yet.

[crowMAW]

Originally posted by sling322
Hmmm...back home we always put our pesticides in sprayers and what not.  I guess missiles are more efficient?

Note...two different sites, two different news stories. One site has a "cache" of 20 MRL rockets.  The other has drums of chemicals.  Most mosquito control is not done with a can of Raid.  They get the pesticides in drums and load it into mobile sprayers.

And if the second site is "just an agricultural site"....why hide the barrels in the ground covered up with leaves as the story says? [/B]

I'll definitely be interested in seeing pics of the site.  I'm not surprised they would store the stuff in a pit.  Both of those chemicals when vaporized are heavier than air, keeping the barrels in a pit would contain spills or leaks.   But I'm really curious to see the leaves...seems a camo net would have been more logical if you were really trying to hide something.

[Pepe]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
I'm not drawing any conclusions yet.

Neither do I. But If I have to choose one side to be skeptical, I undoubtfully chose to be skeptical on Saddam's denials.

As CrowMAW says, U.S. credibility is at risk here. Despite all "political correctness" (aka "hidden agenda stupidity") around Europe, I give a LOT more credit to U.S. government than to Saddam's one or U.N. inspectors skills or ability to fulfill their task effectively. So, at the time being, I'm skeptical about not finding any WMD.

[sling322]

Read the stories CrowMAW.

The first one said there were 20 missiles that were in a "ready to fire" state and were loaded with Sarin and mustard gas.

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by Udie
and another find....

http://www.msnbc.com/news/895392.asp?0sl=-11


**** you blitz,  **** you straffo,  **** you boroda, **** you UN,  **** you france, **** you germany and **** you russia.

may you rot in hell....

Jumping the gun a wee bit aren't we?

 Tronsky

[Mini D]

Chemical weapons in rockets is by far and away the least of anyone's worries.  It might be hyped... but that's for the publicity.

Any state sponsored terrorism from a country that has shown a pension to use chemical weapons on its enemy is a very real threat.  In the case of Iraq, you had two strikes and we weren't going to wait anymore for the third.  It really is that simple.  Most of the rest is just rhetoric and subterfuge (from both sides).

I'm not concerned about the autrocities that Saddam was responsible for in Iraq.  These have been going on for some time and everyone seemed to be just fine with them before.  There's nothing new being exposed here... and there's much worse going on in other countries (especially in Africa).  I'm also not concerned about the presence of nukes and chemical weapons in a country that is 12,000 miles away and only has missiles that can launch 300 miles, because they can't touch me.

I am very much concerned that this country sponsors terrorism and has the ability to manufacture radioactive material and chemical/biological weapons.  These are transportable and can be used via terrorism.  Anyone that denies that Saddam sponsored terrorism or is capable of providing that kind of support to terrorist is being obtuse.

So please, everyone, please continue to spew rhetoric back and forth as if it matters.  Saddam is out of power now.  That is all that really mattered in this situation.

MiniD

[Naso]

Originally posted by sling322
Read the stories CrowMAW.

The first one said there were 20 missiles that were in a "ready to fire" state and were loaded with Sarin and mustard gas.

BM21 infos:

http://www.fuchs.co.za/rocket/bm21.pdf

Produced in South Africa (next in the axis of evil... or of weasel?)

http://www.ifrance.com/ArmyReco/Rus...description.htm

Those are not missiles, are rockets 122mm caliber.

In my opinion (humble, of course) 20 shell-like full of sarin (if confirmed) or whatever, are'nt enough to call it Weapon of Mass Destruction.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by sling322
Read the stories CrowMAW.

The first one said there were 20 missiles that were in a "ready to fire" state and were loaded with Sarin and mustard gas.

Rather than read the first report, listen to the source of it here:

mms://216.35.221.84/me/20030407_me_18.wma