We Ain't Got No Stinkin' Weapons!!

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by Udie
I thought you left nazi boy? Typical euro liar....

Just how does one get a left nazi then?

 Tronsky

[Hangtime]

well, once yah identify all the right german nazi's, all thats left[/b] is....

[Naso]

Originally posted by sling322
So, I take it you wouldnt mind if we brought them over and dropped them on your neighborhood then, eh?

Its Sarin gas, for shrecks sake....loaded in rockets or missiles or whatever.  Its still something that he (Saddam) said that he didnt have, isnt it?  Its still something that is on the list of banned weapons according to UN sanctions from the Gulf War, isnt it?

I dont remember to have taken position about Saddam's owning or not owning the WMD.

Neither I am a supporter of Saddam regime.

I am just expressing my opinion that theese 2 findings are'nt enough to be called "smoking gun".

The "Sarin depot" has been confirmed tonight by the Coalition HQ as a pesticide factory.

20 BM21 rockets.

We are not talking about a Scud here, theese rockets have a warhead of the size of an artillery shell (122mm in this case), and are just half the load of a Katiusha-like rocket launcher.

Not enough even to reach the concentration necessary to have a real effect (except if someone is so dumb to sniff the shell after it hit the ground ).

IMHO this is not the smoking gun.

But I will not place a bet that does'nt exist a real smoking gun, somewhere.

[Fishu]

Originally posted by Martlet
True, only Udie isn't supporting a gov't building camps to exterminate a race.  Just one trying to free a nation from totaltarianism.

...and soviet union liberated several countries population from their imperialist rulers.

Good thing Finland didn't end up as one of the "liberated" countries!


I don't believe Bush has 'freedom' in his mind when hes 'liberating' Iraq, he has other interests there and the 'freedom' is just an excellent excuse to get support.
The reason why I've been against the war in the begining - hypocrisy.

It's just laughable how many people starts to sound like 1930's nazis, just with the different agenda, but so similar attitude wise.
It doesn't need concentration camps, it's the attitude which judges it.

[Pepe]

Fishu:

Are you saying current US is similar to 1.939 USSR? Or implying that US attitude is comparable to Germany's one from 1936 onwards?

Wow! what a heluva brainwash!

[Staga]

Pepe in 1939 Russians came here thinking they would arrive as a liberators and were surprised when they were hit back in a bloody fights.

After reading Bush's thoughts about Iraq's future under US ruling it seems like US is also marching in as an occupier, not a liberator. For me it looks more and more that all this war is about is oil.

[crowMAW]

Originally posted by Naso
20 BM21 rockets.

We are not talking about a Scud here, theese rockets have a warhead of the size of an artillery shell (122mm in this case), and are just half the load of a Katiusha-like rocket launcher.

Not enough even to reach the concentration necessary to have a real effect (except if someone is so dumb to sniff the shell after it hit the ground ).

A little research shows that it would take 15 tonnes (about 16 short tons) of sarin to produce a 50% kill ratio over a 60 sq km area (about 23 sq miles) for a time period of about 10 hours in desert conditions (greater than 90F and 10+ mph wind).

For perspective a BM-21 max payload is about 5kg (about 10lb).  I don't know the BM-21 payload volume or the specific weight of sarin (I'd guess under 10lb per gallon).

[Pepe]

Originally posted by Staga
Pepe in 1939 Russians came here thinking they would arrive as a liberators and were surprised when they were hit back in a bloody fights.

After reading Bush's thoughts about Iraq's future under US ruling it seems like US is also marching in as an occupier, not a liberator. For me it looks more and more that all this war is about is oil.

No way. If my memory suits me well, in 1.939, USSR (a bloody dictatorship by that time) appointed a self-proclaimed "exile" finish "government" who call for soviet "help" to "free" the country. A country which was a democracy. Correct me If I'm wrong. U.S. (a western democracy) is waging war against a bloody and murderous regime which has used all kind of measures to tyranize its population and neighbours. Making an analogy between Finland 1.939 and Iraq 2.003 situation is absolutely out of focus.

What it looks like in Iraq war is that people are both scared and suspicious. Scared about a bloody regime and suspicious about allies attitude after 1.991 deception. Sure there are people loyal to the regime, as in every dictatorship, but I bet the average Iraqui is more opposed to Saddam than me or you will ever be. This is a liberation war, at least at this stage. Wether at the end a real liberation will take place or not, time will tell. Too early for assesment on such an ambitious goal.

Saying this war is for oil is, to say the very least, myopic. See the big picture.

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by crowMAW
A little research shows that it would take 15 tonnes (about 16 short tons) of sarin to produce a 50% kill ratio over a 60 sq km area (about 23 sq miles) for a time period of about 10 hours in desert conditions (greater than 90F and 10+ mph wind).

For perspective a BM-21 max payload is about 5kg (about 10lb).  I don't know the BM-21 payload volume or the specific weight of sarin (I'd guess under 10lb per gallon).

Doesn't really matter though does it?

What this proves is:
a) Iraq lied til the very end
b) Iraq was hiding this from the inspectors
c) Iraq was in violation of the UN resolutions all along

No doubt there will be more 'discoveries'. But all trivialising this does is make you look like you're making excuses for Saddam.

Chemical weapons IS chemical weapons mate. Hes got them, he said he didn't. End of story.

[crowMAW]

Originally posted by Vulcan
Doesn't really matter though does it?

It depends on who you are trying to sell on idea that the invasion was justified.  I think that pointing to half a BM-21 rack of rockets found in a warehouse is kind of like trying to make a drug kingpin case against Pablo Escobar when all you've found is a joint in his pocket.  

No doubt there will be more 'discoveries'.[/b]

I sure hope so, otherwise the USA's credibility is shot.  I really do pray that more is found and that my suspicions are wrong.

But all trivialising this does is make you look like you're making excuses for Saddam.[/b]

As I've said in previous posts...I don't believe that Saddam posed a credible threat to the US based on an excuse that he has WMD.  This trivial amount (if confirmed, which it has not) makes my argument that he was not a credible threat.

BUT...it appears to be a moot argument as the find has been discounted:

“I’VE SEEN NOTHING in official reports that would corroborate that,” Maj. Gen. Stanley McChrystal told reporters at the Pentagon. He was referring to news reports Monday that Marines had found rockets, possibly packed with sarin and a mustard agent, at a warehouse outside Baghdad.[/b] http://www.msnbc.com/news/895392.asp