Al Capone's Vault

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Our biggest trade deficit is with China, we import more Chinese goods than any other nation, or so I thought...time for research...

But trade is multilatteral, we sell a lot more to the canadians so there is not such a proununced trade defecit or surplus - not sure which one wr have with Canada but either way I know the difference is nothing like china. a big trade defecit simply means we import more from them then they from us.

[falken]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
We are friendly with India and have good relations.

America is too important a trade partner for China to make serious trouble IMHO - they would stand to loose a lot if our relationship went down hill, so would we but its a mutual thing.
Finally China and America are serious big boy countries who understand how to play the game and are aware of the reprecussions of misbehaving too much - think of it how neatly the cold war worked out between USA/USSR with tons and tons of WMD.

Pakistan is OK for now. musharraf is a good guy and they are amking an honest effort to help us out. I doubt they will mishbehave too much because they have a country at stake and have reponsibilities with regards to India. Basically if Pakistan messes up in a big way India will take advantage of the sitiation in some devious way.

North Korea is the biggest concern of course. They are pretty bad on all counts. Ironically I think the only thing thats keeping them safe from a big attack is the fact that they can destroy Seoul withing minutes of the start of any war. This means we must treat them more carefully. Its not a simple answer like yoiu would like but I feel its reasonable considering how things usually work out.

well it was a good answer

But it still smells a little cowardism (darwin ?)

[Martlet]

Originally posted by straffo
Martlet ,it's just we don't have the muscle to play the game like USA can do,so we have to rely on other tricks.

But I agree that current war on Iraq don't look to  end like I was affraid to see (no pan-arabism explosion for now).

Currently the outcome of this war look to be pretty good, but it was not what I expected.
 
The ROE of the US army were smart enougtht to permit advance of the troop without creating tons of martyr (even with some psychological error like sending the brit to Basra).

Well, that's what kind of keeps our gov't in check.  The president can't just declare war.  He has to have the backing of congress, and congress is representative of the people.  Most of the people honestly have good intentions.  This is no different than anywhere else in the world, only our gov't is designed to support the will of the people.  This is one of the reasons most of our conflicts have high popular support.  If we honestly thought the Iraq citizens didn't want us there, we probably wouldn't go.  The other arab countries will grumble, but not do much else.  Partly because they are afraid of Saddam as well, and partly because they want to stay in coalition favor for political reasons.

Our troops are overall probably some of, if not the, best trained in the world.  One of the reasons we suffered so few casualties (as well as civilian) is we have the power, so don't take chances.  Lure the enemy out, then bomb the piss out of them before they get close enough to do anything.

[GRUNHERZ]

I'm assuming the cowardism comment is about North Korea.

Yea there is that reality that they could very quickly kill a bunch of people in seoul and I think this affords them the kids glove treatment. However the point to decide between cowardice/appeasement and detrmined action hasnt yet arived. it would only happend I think if the North began to push its luck and try to cash in on that factor. Basically if they push it too far at some point we will be forced to consider if those very real deaths in seuol are less of a danger than the aleternative - and thats where the choice between appeasement  and action will occur in Korea. IMHO of course.

[SLO]

well I'm surprised too straffo....

the americans an brits are doin a very fine job up too now...hope it continues on like this....

[Saintaw]

Sirloin is Lazs closet brother??? Am I getting this right?

[BGBMAW]

I didnt read any of this crap...


YO SISSIES!!!!!

I bet $100.00 AMerican totally tubular dollars that Iraq has WMD's...

If any you say no and want to stand behind it with money..BRING IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I bet $100 .....WMD s' Iraq yes...

[Ripsnort]

Sirloin, its "for the children"

Agence France-Presse | April 8, 2003

BAGHDAD (AFP) - More than 100 children held in a prison celebrated their freedom Tuesday as US marines rolled into northeast Baghdad amid chaotic scenes which saw civilians loot weapons from an army compound, a US officer said.
Around 150 children spilled out of the jail after the gates were opened as a US military Humvee vehicle approached, Lieutenant Colonel Fred Padilla told an AFP correspondent travelling with the Marines 5th Regiment.

"Hundreds of kids were swarming us and kissing us," Padilla said.

"There were parents running up, so happy to have their kids back."

"The children had been imprisoned because they had not joined the youth branch of the Baath party," he alleged. "Some of these kids had been in there for five years."

The children, who were wearing threadbare clothes and looked under-nourished, walked on the streets crossing their hands as if to mimic handcuffs, before giving the thumbs up sign and shouting their thanks.

It was not clear who had opened the doors of the prison.

Civilians also took advantage of the collapse of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's authority to grab weapons from an army base, said Group Sergeant Jeff Treiber.

As marines were alerted by radio that civilians had seized weapons, Treiber warned that anyone seen to be armed could be a target of US-British coalition forces.

"With the weapons they are becoming combatants," said Treiber. "If they don't take the weapons they will be fine."

Other residents stole air conditioning units, television sets and furniture from government buildings in an echo of the looting that was seen in the southern city of Basra.

A 19-year-old called Haider said people had been ransacking government compounds since the morning to steal weapons and furniture.

"Since the morning, nine o'clock, they have been looting. They are stealing weapons and I took three doors," he said.

At one stage the marines opened fire after coming under attack from snipers, leaving at least two civilians wounded.

One man needed treatment for gunshot wounds to his stomach and left arm.

But his friend, Abdul Amir Jaffa, said he did not resent the Americans despite the shooting.

"Americans are coming to free us," he told AFP.

The marines became increasingly edgy as crowds of people took to the streets to observe their progress.

"It's a problem with so many people in the area. Its hard to tell if there are enemy forces among them. You have to be careful returning fire with civilians all over the place," Lieutenant Anthony Sousa said.

Troops from the Marines' 1st Expeditionary Force also entered Baghdad on the east of the city Tuesday as thousands of armoured vehicles and Humvees poured into the capital for a showdown with Saddam Hussein's troops.

[GRUNHERZ]

Now the anti-war types will blame us for all the looting and civil unrest.

"You killed all of Saddams enforers and now they streets are rife with crime, with Saddams gentle police all the people were peaceful and calm. Told ya so violence doesntr solve aqnything, violence only begets violence..  You see the agressive warlikne nature of the US troops showed the doe-eyed iraqi population that one could use violence to achieve goals - this just reflects the violent American culture..

Ohh I'm getting too upset, I must enhance my calm, where's my latte?"

[lazs2]

hey sirloin... I said I would duel with wildthing any time he wanted... have his second meet with mine... I believe I have choice of weapons?

so... all you guys that think we shouldn't be there...   How would us not being there help get rid of saddam?   how would us not being there help the people of iraq and the world community in general?   How would the frigging worthless un have gotten rid of saddam and..... how many more years do you think the keystone cops inspectors needed to search a country the size of California when they could expect no help from people in fear of their families ending up feet first in a shredder?

I don't believe that with the self interest of a lot of countries we could have ever gotten a un mandate to do what we are doing now and... I can't think of one thing that is bad about whzt we are doing now.

I believe that if you are against us in this then you are against all that is right... I would also have you look at the history of the U.S... we are not imperialists and we allways leave countries better off than when we came...  The un is a frigging joke to be tolerated only if it is not too meddlesome.... a pacifier for the impotent and envious countries and those with too many skeletons in thier closet.

I say that this whole thing also showed us who are friends are and who's judgment is tainted by envy and guilt.... who cares not a whit about what is right.  
lazs

[SirLoin]

What it boils down to for me is this...

War is a last resort...If there is an option for avoiding this and achieving similar results(disarming Iraq),then that option must be explored before you start firing cannon balls...There were weapons inspectors all over Iraq,looking everywhere and anywhere...Perhaps more where needed,maybe an army of them with the conditions that any impedance or interference would be the trigger for instant military action.

The cheif weapons inspector in his final report to the UN stated that Iraq could be disarmed through continued inpections,not in years or months..but weeks...As soon as this was reported, GWB gave the 48 hours warning to weapons inspectors to leave Iraq.That pissed me off...The inspections were working..Saddam was humiliated and was handing over long range missles etc...They coulda then stepped it up 10x,squeezed his regime with these inspectors crawling over palaces,religious sites..etc..This might have been enought for the Iraqi's higher up's to take out Saddam themselves...Or,a long term effective UN weapons inspection task force could also have been inplemented.This would have sent a clear message to "Axis of Evil" nations that it is about disarmament after all..Not "Regime Change" through war.

Resolution 1441 was a UN resolution to which Saddam was not complying.The UN is the judge for "serious consequences for non complience",not the United States.

A little more time was all the UN wanted to exaust a last measure to avoid war...perhaps it's findings would have determined that Iraq indeed required immediate military action...This was not explored...That is my beef with GWB.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by SirLoin
What it boils down to for me is this...

War is a last resort...If there is an option for avoiding this and achieving similar results(disarming Iraq),then that option must be explored before you start firing cannon balls...There were weapons inspectors all over Iraq,looking everywhere and anywhere...Perhaps more where needed,maybe an army of them with the conditions that any impedance or interference would be the trigger for instant military action.

The cheif weapons inspector in his final report to the UN stated that Iraq could be disarmed through continued inpections,not in years or months..but weeks...As soon as this was reported, GWB gave the 48 hours warning to weapons inspectors to leave Iraq.That pissed me off...The inspections were working..Saddam was humiliated and was handing over long range missles etc...They coulda then stepped it up 10x,squeezed his regime with these inspectors crawling over palaces,religious sites..etc..This might have been enought for the Iraqi's higher up's to take out Saddam themselves...Or,a long term effective UN weapons inspection task force could also have been inplemented.This would have sent a clear message to "Axis of Evil" nations that it is about disarmament after all..Not "Regime Change" through war.

Resolution 1441 was a UN resolution to which Saddam was not complying.The UN is the judge for "serious consequences for non complience",not the United States.

A little more time was all the UN wanted to exaust a last measure to avoid war...perhaps it's findings would have determined that Iraq indeed required immediate military action...This was not explored...That is my beef with GWB.

12 years wasn't long enough for ya?

[BGBMAW]

HOW CAN YOU explain 12 years!!!..AND THEY DECLARED THEY HAD NOTHING!!!


THE UN WAS NOT THERE TO SEARCH!!!!!!!!!!!

GET THAT thru your SKULL!!!!

They were there to see the PROOF!!! PLAIN AND SIMPLE

Soddom offering "token" banned weapons is BS..owell


Why even mention it now..

Unbeleivable peopl say "more time"

Ok..SirLoin..tell us this...WHEN would it be time to break his gang up then?? 3o years?? We in America who are the Target fro crazy bstrds with WMDs will not wait for another mass attak

[BGBMAW]

AGAIN!!!!

THE UN was there to see the PROOF that  they were gone...NOT SEARCH for them!!!!! BULLLSHIITTTTT

[BGBMAW]

The cheif weapons inspector in his final report to the UN stated that Iraq could be disarmed through continued inpections,not in years or months..but weeks...

LMFAO..YOU prove the point against yourself!!!


IRAQ declared they had nothing!!!!!..as soon as 1 frikn thing was found...tiem to break and destroy..VERY SIMPLE...

THE reso said ..Give it up or "serious sht will hit the fan"


I bet next resolution US signs....the country will think twice before doing a Soddom...llololol

This WAr is GREAT....Its being RUn near perfection....A GREAT tribute to American and Coaltion Soldiers/commanders..and citizens...SALUTE!!!!!

Love
BiGB
xoxo