Med Leauge.. I'm out

[Kirin]

On the astronaut issue:

I just don't see a point for a FW190-A8 squad to defend an airspace against Fighters coming in at 30k+... We were constantly on the run and against well flown enemies we won't stand a chance - not to say they had numerical advantage as well...

This may have been RL - but it's just no fun running from higher enemy all the time. And this sim does not reflect the real situation by any means... (planes, material, conditions) so for playabilitys sake give us a hard ceiling.

For Greybeard:

In RL neutral countries (e.g. Switzerland) virtually shot everything that entered their airspace. The Swiss forced more than 70 buffs to land at their airfields - they shot at axis and allied and were attacked by both as well. There is a nice story about a american P51 that shot down 2 swiss 109s... there were other swiss squadrons around but they mistook the P51 for theirs...   (yup Switzerland flew any plane they could take hold of...)

[Dowding]

Yeah - we all know about Switzerland's 'neutrality' in the war.  

[RAM]

Kirin:

WHINER!

 

[Dinger]

 

(I can just see Montgomery or Rommel
                       getting a telegram from the other commander re: Hard Ceilings, and can imagine what the response
                       would have been).

Indeed.  And since AH Buffs are such an accurate representation of RL, I wonder why level bombers ever flew below 25k if they could bomb targets as small as a .50 cal machine gun with 100% accuracy from 30,000 feet up.

[Suave1]

Given the circumstances and the buggy resources that the CM's and CO's have to work with I think they're doing pretty well. Somebody has to do it, or well never be able to have an AH scenario worth a damn . As for an alt cap to prevent bounces.. well that's just silly. Why would you want to prevent bounces ? In wwII you either got bounced or did the bouncing . I got killed today when we were bounced at 20k by high 190's <S>Nath. But that was my fault for going into indian country at that alt .

[SC-GreyBeard]

Kirin, Dowding..

Yup, you're right.

Blew that one all to hell..
happens on occasion due to age and CRS....

wish I could remember what CRS stands for...

------------------
GreyBeard, Squadron Leader
Commander, "E" Flight, Aces High
Senior Staff Council
"The Skeleton Crew"
"Fly with Honor"[/i]
"Keepin' the Faith"

[StSanta]

ram said:

Oh ,and P38 will lose advantage against C205 over 25K...190s lose advantage over 10K against ALL planes. So that is not an argument.

Right on.

Kirin's point is also very well made.

Maybe it won't hurt if RAM decides not to participate. Maybe it won't hurt if I don't either.

But, if that continues, have fun flying alone, allies  .

Afrika has top alt at 10k for jabos 15 for cover. Not realistic since in real life they could go higher and some did. Sure, scenario is different, but all the arguments o having unlimited alt set apply to it as well.

I'll tell you what; you gimme a fair fighting chance, and I'll fight even when badly outnumbered. I think I've proven that. Gimme a no chance situation, and I'll rtb, save airframes and reconsider whether this is the way I want to spend my Saturday night.

No biggie either way, but would be nice to use your guns once in a while in a scenario.

------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

[Hairball]

Damn; my bellybutton hurts.

[This message has been edited by Hairball (edited 10-22-2000).]

[Hangtime]

A clarification..

I am NOT accusing Zigrat of cheating.. I know him to be a reputable pilot; and for his efforts with Med Leauge as well as in the MA he has my respect!

As a point of fact; it is improbable; if not impossible to manage the scenario, answer CO's questions, coordinate with the CM for on the fly arena settings and adjustments, or maintain anything less than chaos while sitting in one side or the others cocpit or HQ.

Proofs in the pudding. It was mayhem from an organisational standpoint.. and if nobody but pilots on 'the other side' have a hand on the switches; things are gonna get not done that MUST be done. (like answer my hails on A/C losses due to acks, or radar setting snafu's, etc) Then; as a result, some fast hard conclusions and decisons will be reached. Like mine. If I can't verify a point or setting, or get an answer to an immediate and pressing question.. what conclusions must be made?

When I say "trust; but verify" I mean just that... and with the CM and the organiser both tossing out on the fly changes that can (and did) drasticly effect either countrys readiness state or strategic postioning, and these people are flying the oppositions A/C; again I ask, what conclusions must be drawn?

Sorry.. again, not accusing anybody of 'cheating' or of even considering it. Just making clear that organizationl responsibilty of Zig and his CM in an event like this makes it an imperative that they disassociate themselves from an in-hq or in-air presence in the scenario.

Hang

[Minotaur]

Hangtime;

First off thanks for your efforts.

I had looked very much forward to flying under your command.  To my witness, the confusion of getting into this TOD was very high, but I thought you  and the others were getting a handle on it.  

I relished the thought of following your orders into battle. Fighting a co-ordinated effort I am certain is the way to go.

I was ready to give my virtual life for your honor.  

But...

I was naive, I had no idea of the problems and frustrations you were up against.  I am sorry that your experience got badly tainted.

You left the SEA in a hurry, and what I made to be kind hacked off mood.  My question, what exactly was the straw that broke the camel's back?

Thanks!  Someday I hope to shoot you down!  

------------------
Mino
The Wrecking Crew

"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble

[ra]

RAM, Kirin, and other LW types:  You want the  fight to be mandated down to a level where the planes you fly perform well?  Does that sound right to you?

Some planes were specifically designed for hi-alt, like the Jug and the P-38, some for low-alt, like the 190A.  So if you choose to fly a 190A in an arena which has Jugs and P-38s, you should expect a disadvantage in hi-alt engagements.

We Jugs keep encountering C205s and 109s above our 30K alt, so our main advantage is blown right away.  

Buffs should be limited to a real-world ceiling, somewhere in the mid-20K region.  Any higher and bombing accurracy went to hell.  B-26s should be even lower, like 15K or so.  I'm not sure B-26s were even equipped with O2 as they were meant for lower altitude bombing.  If bombers fly at more realistic altitudes, the fight would quickly come down below 25k.

ra

[Fatty]

You guys ARE aware that should your side happen to lose this scenario, that it's NOT that big of a deal, right?

The fate of the world does not in fact rest on a fair scenario, fly or don't fly, quit if you don't like it, hell if Axis is low I'll swap over, I don't care.  Just give the guys a break or go do your own scenario.

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by ra:
RAM, Kirin, and other LW types:  You want the  fight to be mandated down to a level where the planes you fly perform well?  Does that sound right to you?

Again: Jugs and P38s CAN fight at low level. Both are fast and great BnZers at ALL Altitudes. And while it's true that P38s and P47s were optimized for high level fighting, they both proved mortally dangerous foes at low levels (Forked tail devil? Jug? both will be remembered as two of the best fighter bombers of all times, and to jabo you MUST fight low.)

Fw190As CAN'T fly at 30K. Let alone FIGHT there. Period.

 They are worthless over 20K, go figure at 30K. They passed to history as very good low level fighters and jabos, but one of the worst high level fighters until D9 showed up.

It is simple. Jugs and P38 pilots at 15K can have a blast and do very good fighting. Fw190A at 30k only have endless annoyement and can't fly, let alone fight there.

In first case the pilots can have fun. In the second there is no way to have fun as you can't do anything.

If you dont understand this, man, you REALLY need to fly in that scenario, with those enemies, and those altitudes...But on a 190.

Lets see if you have fun.  

That said, what I stated was that if this is going to be like this with no hard ceiling, I wont take part. No hard feelings, no serious trouble. No annoyement. NO COMPLAINS.

Still you jumped all on me with "complainer", "Whiner", "dweeb",etc calls when I just said that I can't agree with one setting in the scenario. Again, if that is your view of whiners and complainers, you will be very unhappy guys in real life. Because for you everyone will be complaining.

 


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 10-22-2000).]

[Animal]

HTC TAKE NOTE.

WE-NEED-REALISTIC-ALTTITUDE

[Maniac]

LOL!

Hard deck of 15k in an scenario???!!! Who said that war was fair? or an even matchup?

I will remember this once LW get some uber AC.

Regards



------------------
AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-