Author Topic: please help me with some tips (Read 845 times)

udet · « **on:** April 07, 2003, 05:49:56 PM »

Lately I have been flying the 190D9 quite a lot. I try to B&Z and not get into furballs. However, after I do 2-3 dives and zooms I usually get someone on my tail, that is someone with airspeed
matching mine who can hang on to my tail.How can I avoid that?

And, if I do get an enemy on my tail, what can I do? The D9 is a good plane but I can't figure out any effective defensive maneuvers other than side slipping which kills my airspeed and makes me an even easier target for furballers.

bockko · « **Reply #1 on:** April 07, 2003, 06:03:04 PM »

well, you kinda answered your own question. If you want to fly b/z then you picked a good plane. A pure b/z pilot cannot afford to get tangled up or to allow his e state to get very low. Common solutions are: establish a "deck" alt at which you disengage, this gives you room to dive out; never allow your speed to fall a certain point, thus keeping your zoom ability alive; don't make sharp turns trying for snapshots; before diving and after making a pass check the area around you for threats; fly in coordinated pairs. All of these help you stay alive. They also can make for some booooring trigger time. Often you must let your victim escape because chasing him down will get you in trouble.

udet · « **Reply #2 on:** April 07, 2003, 08:41:53 PM »

Like I said, I am aware of all this factors. Putting them into practice seems much harder. For example, which is the best emergy-retentive pull-out from a dive? Should I establish a shallow climb and maintain airspeed or zoom straight up and quickly build-up altitude? What are the pros and cons of each approach? Is there another way to do it?

bockko · « **Reply #3 on:** April 07, 2003, 09:32:30 PM »

well, an understanding of where E is lost is important. when pulling g's (vertical, horizontal, doesn't matter) you can pull hard (loaded) or easy (unloaded). When your wings are loaded you burn more e; when unloaded, less e. So if you bounce someone then pull up hard you momentarily g-load your wings, expending e. If you extend smoothly without pulling hard, you burn less e. The decision to pull up hard or extend easy really is up to you. If you intend on getting right back onto a target, pulling up hard to stay over him may make sense, but if you are just buzzing through looking for easy kills of unaware pilots, no sense pulling hard. If retaining e is your goal, avoid hard g maneuvers, including your climb out. If you reverse/turn at the top of your turn while you are slow, you burn much less e than turning hard while fast. Make sense?
If you get a bog on ur 6 while in D9 use your superior roll rate to avoid being hit while you dive out, hence the need to save some alt for an escape. Once slow, you will be toast.

Boozer · « **Reply #4 on:** April 08, 2003, 05:54:04 AM »

SA also, the D9 wasnt made to zoom the middle of a furball. That's just what the 51's & jugs out on the egde are looking for: an agressive 190 to jump on as it extends out of the middle. You need to pay more attention to the hunters that wait at the outer ring instead of just that spit turning low down in the middle.

SLO · « **Reply #5 on:** April 08, 2003, 08:11:37 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boozer
SA also, the D9 wasnt made to zoom the middle of a furball. That's just what the 51's & jugs out on the egde are looking for: an agressive 190 to jump on as it extends out of the middle. You need to pay more attention to the hunters that wait at the outer ring instead of just that spit turning low down in the middle.

seconded:p

udet · « **Reply #6 on:** April 08, 2003, 10:30:16 AM »

thanx a lot guys

wetrat · « **Reply #7 on:** April 08, 2003, 07:08:17 PM »

My advice: fly a real plane. The dora is for cherry pickers and "veteran" wusses.

palef · « **Reply #8 on:** April 08, 2003, 11:17:46 PM »

I like the 190D9, and can often get into the situation you describe too

I have found effective tactic for disengaging or staying with a better turning fighter (provided you keep a little E in reserve) is the vector roll. Using this technique you can change direction incredibly quickly.

Instead of banking left to turn left, roll right 270 degrees and then pull the stick back. This will have you turning left without the initial E burn of a left bank and give you enough of a direction change to begin your egress.

palef

Lazerus1 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 09, 2003, 02:47:14 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by wetrat
My advice: fly a real plane. The dora is for cherry pickers and "veteran" wusses.

I second that. Try a 190A8, thats a real mans plane:D

udet · « **Reply #10 on:** April 09, 2003, 12:32:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by wetrat
My advice: fly a real plane. The dora is for cherry pickers and "veteran" wusses. [/QUOTE

so, what are the planes that:

maneuver well
are fast
are not considered dweeby?

humble · « **Reply #11 on:** April 09, 2003, 03:03:42 PM »

Udet,

Personally I think the 2 keys to the problem are simple....

1st the better your SA the more you can avoid the problem,

however given the #'s in the MA you will almost always run into a con thats higher and/or has more E than you do. So...

2nd, you need to evaluate the difference in Energy and "tactical" state and decide as quickly as possible if you can run or not...if you have to engage...to win in a D9 you'll need to force an overshoot and convert on the snap shot most of the time

So the key would be to make him think your running...while your really trying to set up overshoot....example...the above mentioned vector role with a chopped throttle to a rolling scissor might work...if the bogie is worried about your running he's going to be coming hard since you easily out rolled him...of course you'll probably only get the single chance.

humble · « **Reply #12 on:** April 09, 2003, 03:05:23 PM »

I'm also assuming your already burning your aft tank 1st...from what I know thats 190 101:)

udet · « **Reply #13 on:** April 10, 2003, 02:24:53 PM »

humble, I think I understand what you are saying.
ok...totally noob question... you can select which tank you extract the fuel in AH?

Tarmac · « **Reply #14 on:** April 10, 2003, 02:51:51 PM »

Yep, shift-F changes tanks.

When the tank being burned has an A in front (ie A-AFT), it means you're back on auto fuel management.

Most 190 pilots, myself included, burn the aft tank first.