JU 87 stuka why is not been born with ACESHIGH?

[Jimdandy]

 

Originally posted by Sorrow[S=A]:

The sirens I believe were added after the plane saw service in poland to increase the pure terror it caused people on the ground. It was also handy for terrifying horses and such that were transporting supplies and artillery.

Thank you.  

[TheWobble]

the first sirens mounted on the stuka were nothing more than cardboard tube whistles, wierd huh, just saw that on the discovery channel

[eagl]

Sorrow,

Like I said, some can do it, some can't.  I've tried hard and I just can't do it.  I can sometimes strafe down one or two acks before they get me, and I have on one or two occasions (out of dozens of attempts) actually destroyed a ground object like a hangar or bunker.  Acks are easy, it's everything else that I can't seem to get.  Some objects on the strat targets do seem somewhat easier to kill (fuel refineries for example), but airfield targets and other strat targets seem very very hard to destroy with dive bombing.

Maybe I just suck, I'm always open to that possiblity.  All I have to go on is my own experiences and the experiences of my squadmates.  In WB, we used to go on JABO strikes all the time because they could be very effective.  We gave it up almost entirely in AH because 1) it's suicidal given the ostwind and ack lethality, and 2) we can't actually do much damage anyhow so the deaths are pointless.  It only takes a few craters that touch undamaged vehicles, or 2000lb craters that touch radar sites and buildings without destroying them, to make people give up on that type of attack.  It's a gameplay issue rather than a realism issue, and the settings are rather deliberately chosen to push gameplay one way or the other.

If something absolutely has to be destroyed with the current settings, it's far far better to send even a single 30k lancaster or B-17 than it is to send half a dozen heavy P-47's or F-4U's.  The accuracy and lethality difference is night and day due to the arena hardness/lethality balance.


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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!

[This message has been edited by eagl (edited 01-14-2001).]

[Ghosth]

EAGL,

While I used to have the same problem with jabo attacks or divebombing that you are experienceing. It is possible to learn with some practise.

Beyond a doubt the F4u-1c is the plane of choice for learning. Load 2 1k bombs & rockets. Set salvo to 2 so both bombs will land very close together. Approach from 9k until you are almost vertically above the target. Close throttle, dive straight at hanger. I drop about 1.5k & pull up into immelman, select rockets, reverse & repeat.

With 2 1k bombs even close to target rockets & 20mm if needed should kill the hanger.

4 of us in hvy hawgs killed all 4 hangers at A35 in under a minute late friday night.
Before they knew the field was under attack all hangers & acks were dead and the C-47 was landing. (we then had a very nice battle for the port but thats another story)

As an AH trainer if I can help all you need do is drop me a email, or give me a shout in main.

[eagl]

Thanks for the offer ghosth.  That's pretty much the technique I use.  It's just very frustrating to me to do that, and have my 2000lb bomb craters touching a building, and have that building remain standing.  I've SEEN what a 2000lb bomb does to a building firsthand in RL, and it doesn't just leave a little crater.

I'll probably keep practicing it because I'm a moron (I swore off attacking GV's too, yet every once in a while I waste an entire chog ammo load on an ostwind with no effect) but it still doesn't encourage jabo attacks.  




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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!

[RAM]

If you are to use Hogs in divebombing and field JAbo, use Dhogs. They carry four rockets more than the Chog.

Eagl, I never ahve had pinpoint accuracy on dive bombing, but its a reasonable way to bomb, and not that difficult. I think that some people posted films doing it in the Training forum some time ago, maybe you want to take a look there  

BTW I'd love to see a Ju87G...DEATH TO THE OSTIES!!!  

And for those who says that the Ju87 was outdated after 1940...the soviets and the Royal NAvy sure didnt think the same. Stukas in the Mediterranean destroyed countless ships and damaged seriously even more.

Ju87 was a slow, ungaingly plane that was easy meat for fighters...but if a Field attack role they will have useful purposes. both a Ju87D model for dive bombing (send three of this and the VH is history), and a Ju87G for anti-ostie and anti-tank roles.

I sincerelly think that the 87 has a spot in this game, and that it will be used (hell we everybody see TBMs on the MA, right?   )

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 01-15-2001).]

[MarkVZ]

 

Am I wrong to assume that it wasn't so predominant in the Luftwaffe's operations later in the war? (I'm no expert)

After *just* finishing Hans Ulrich Udel's "Stuka Pilot," I can confrim that Stukas were used literally until the last hour of the war, and even slightly after.  

Rudel showed that even while the Stuka was severely outclassed by Russian fighters and such, he still successfully operated them under conditions of heavy flak and no fighter escort on occasions.  The Stuka was used from the onslought of the war, in North Africa to the Mediterranian, in the Battle of Britian, On the Western Front, in the tide-turning battle of Stalingrad, and very extensively on the Eastern front, up until the last hours of the war.  The Stuka is apparently a very tough bird. Rudel brought many a flak-battered Stuka home.  Rudel crashed one so severely that the engine was found far from the wreckage, and he woke up laying by the tail (which was seperated from the rest of the fuselage) with his rear gunner shouting to him from *in front of him* and lived to fly hundreds more sorties until the war's end.  I'm not sure how well they would fare in the skies of Aces High, but I would sure love to find out.  

Also, if you get a chance to read Stuka Pilot, I highly reccomend it as it is very interesting and gives a fairly detailed account of the operations of a dive-bombers on the Eastern front, and is a rather inspiring story of how Rudel persistantly defended the fatherland, even against the direct orders of Hitler towards the end.


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Do not continue reading if you are currently reading Stuka Pilot or plan on reading it, because it may ruin the ending  
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Interestingly, Rudel was about to lead an anti-tank Stuka sortie (this was after Hitler commited suicide) when he was informed of Germany's unconditional surrender.  Interestingly enough, after the surrendur, a handful of 190's and Stukas headed out to surrendur to the Americans before the Soviets could reach them.  Those who couldn't fly marched in a column on the ground.  Just before leaving, Russian Boston bombers unsucsessfully bombed the column. While on the way to the American occupied aerodrome, the Stukas were attacked by Russian fighters, but yet most made it through.  You have to understand that Rudel flew over 2500 sorties over the eastern front, and accounted for over 500 tanks destroyed, so the Russians wanted him bad, surrendur or not.  Upon reaching the American aerodrome, Rudel instructed the others in Stukas to jettison their landing gear (a feature which the Stuka had) and belly-land in order to keep the Americans from getting anything in the form of operational German equipment.  After making a low pass over the aerodrome to ensure that the AA wasn't going to fire on them (and bringing the celebrating Americans to the ground from fear) all but one Stuka belly-landed.  It turns out that the Stuka that landed normally was carring a woman who had been standing on the outside of the field on takeoff.  The crew had placed the stranger in the rear fuselage to save her from the Russians, and refused to belly-land for it might harm her.  The column wasn't so lucky.  All but a few were butchered when the column was intercepted by Czec and Russian troops  


-Mark VanZwoll-

[Voss]

  We could always use more targets!  

  True, the whistles were added to the bombs. The terrible noise is from the airframe, though. In attack configuration the airframe generates a ton of drag, and noise. The whistles were added to magnify the effect on troops.

  The sound that you hear from Hollywood (diving planes) is actually an A-36 Apache (the American Stuka), which had a much more terrifying sound than any Stuka ever thought of having. Same for the famous segment in "The Wall" by Pink Floyd. It's the image of a Stuka, but the sound is an Apache.

  This weapon (?) was first discovered in WW1. When a two seat aircraft ran out of bombs over the front line trenches, he resorted to dropping empty wine bottles (no doubt used to fortify his courage against Archie - AAA). They whistled on their way down, and gave great delight in the effect they had on enemy troops. Galland (I think it was) accidentally rediscovered this in Poland. He was originally assigned to a Heinkel bi-plane squadron (type escapes me for the moment). During an attack, on an enemy cavalry column, the first few pilots in forgot to readjust their props. The racket, that resulted from their dives, scared man (and beast alike) worse then the machine guns. They repeated this numerous times with great effect!

  I doubt the Stuka would ever see significant usage in AH. As noted by others, Air Supremacy is a requisite for this aircrafts' success. Yet, we see tanks! So, bring 'em on!  

Voss 13th T.A.S.

[715]

As mentioned by others the Stuka was useful against undefended populations but was useless if air supremacy was not in place.  A previous online sim I flew (Warbirds or maybe Air Warrior) added Stukas.  For a couple of days they were everywhere as people tried them out.  After that.. you never saw a single one.  I suspect HTC would be reticent to spend a lot of time designing a new plane that ended up never being used.

[DrSoya]

Yeah it was in WarBirds. When I was still flying, I never saw a Stuka in the Main Arena (but then there are no ground vehicles in WB). They were used in scenarios.

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DrSoya
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
Part of the Northolt Wing (First Polish Fighter Wing)

[MarkVZ]

Actually, Rudel reports using the Ju-87 under conditions with little or no escort on the Eastern Front.  He always semed to be able to avoid and evade the Russian fighters if needed.  Obviously there were other factor involved such as proximity to front-lines and flak and such (The Russians didn't like persuing the Stukas through their own flak) so things may be different in Aces High.  Rudel reported that with the tank-busting Stuka, 1-2 shots was all that was neccesary in most cases to catch a tank on fire, provided he attacked from the rear to hit the fuel/engine.

-Mark VanZwoll

[715]

The Stuka might be useful in an arena with no icons (hint hint) where you could get in and attack ground vehicles and ground targets and then try to extend and hide.  But in the normal arena with the big neon "KICK ME" sign trailing your plane, I doubt they would last.

715

[Wingnut_0]

The "Jericho's Trumpet" was fitted to the B models and on some D and R models.  They were fitted to the landing gear.  During the Battle of Britian these sirens were mainly removed until they stopped making them period on the D models.

A D could carry 1800kg of bombs or a 1400kg AP bomb (though I don't know anything about bombs in general).  The D also institued twin MG81 guns for the rear gunner and on the D-4 model the 7.9mm fronts were replaced with 20mm's.

The G model was a doozy.  Armed with 2 37mm guns, carrying AP ammo with tungsten cores.  Even though the guns were only loaded with 6 rnds apiece 12 total) the JU87G was such a stable gun plateform that you could easily make every hit count.  I am not aware whether both cannons fired linked or whether they could be fired seperately (I guess linked).

The G-1 and G-2 were produced and the difference mainly consisted of a longer wingspan for the G2.

Either the D-4 or the G1/2 would be great additions to planeset and at least I'd use it Plus we could actually do some blasted historical scenario's..hehe


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Wingnut
Luftjagerkorps
 

The quality of the box matters little.  Success depends upon the man who sits in it  -  Baron Manfred von Richthofen

[This message has been edited by Wingnut_0 (edited 01-20-2001).]

[Voss]

Now that you mention it, Nut, you're right. I remember reading that now. I still remember those whistles, though. The airplane already had an effective wail.

Anyone have a copy of "The Luftwaffe Diary?" The HE-bipe thing was in there. I'm sure that was Galland.

Voss 13th T.A.S.