Author Topic: Shawk and friends ONLY - please read.  (Read 1723 times)

Offline Hornet

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« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2003, 07:51:58 AM »
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Hornet - never did see the LA7 death squads.


Have you ever? Maybe they're a figment of your imagination, but their psychological affect on your disposition cannot be overstated :)
Hornet

Offline TimRas

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« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2003, 09:13:02 AM »
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Originally posted by beet1e


You're wrong. I did my own performance test with the 109G10 and the 190D9. Up to 10K with WEP, 190D9 had the VSI hard over at 4K/minute! I thought the G10 was supposed to be the fastest climber. At 10K after 4 minutes, the 190D9 was crusing at just over 400mph.


I just had to test this myself. I measured climbing times offline from the moment wheels lifted off from runway to 10K. WEP and autoclimb was used.

Climb time of Bf 109-G10 with 50% fuel, guns (1*30mm+2*20mm+2*13mm): 2 min 28 sec.
Climb time of Fw190D-9 with 50% fuel: 2 min. 43 sec.
Climb time of La-7 with 50% fuel: 2 min. 40s

At 10K plane was levelled and accelerated to 300mph indicated with WEP. Total times from the liftoff from the runway:
Bf 109G-10: 3 min. 22 sec.
Fw 190D-9: 3 min. 45 sec.
La-7: 3 min. 47 sec.

Performance of the La-7 and Dora is practically identical, but G10 is clearly the best, with or without wing gondolas.

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2003, 10:11:14 AM »
Hornet!  Oh those LA7s - the ones that come to me in my sleep! No, I haven't seen them for a few nights now. :)

TimRas - thanks for doing that test. My main focus was on the top speed of each plane. The rate of climb in the Dora was an observation, and I was not measuring acceleration at all. I would like to test this further, so will do your tests, and monitor more closely the climb rate throughout the whole 10K climb. What was the best level cruising speed you got for each plane, and at what alts?

Offline Urchin

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« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2003, 11:18:38 AM »
Yes, the 109G10 will out turn the Dora pretty handily.  With gondolas it is a little more dicey, but you should still be able to do it.  

Like I said before, the gondolas impact the 109s performance in a big way.  Basically what you do when you put gondolas on a G10 is turn it into a imitation Dora.  You lose the performance you need to really fight aggressively in the vertical plane, so you are limited to Boom n Zoom tactics, which the 109 isn't particularly well-suited for due to the stiff controls at high speed.

Offline sling322

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« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2003, 11:43:51 AM »
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Originally posted by AKcurly
There is one other difference, Urchin. :)

curly


Yeah....Urchin seems to be slightly more hairy than Drex.  



:D

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2003, 11:58:20 AM »
Urchin - so noted. But that means that the Dora has what - 4 times as many cannon rounds as the G10...  I see guys getting 6, 8, even 10 kills with a 109G10. Does this mean they were using gondolas, or did they perhaps simply re-arm between sorties?

I've repeated my offline tests, and paid attention to additional parameters this time. Each plane had 50% fuel, and the G10 had gondolas. WEP was used throughout. Have a look at this.



Does the 109G10 accelerate better than the Dora? Well, in the test, the G10 reaches 10,000 20 seconds sooner than the Dora, and therefore has an extra 20 seconds in level flight in which to accelerate to its maximum level speed. But despite this, the 190 Dora reaches the 380mph mark at time 4:40 after the start of take off roll - the same as the G10, although the G10 was maxed out by then. Note that the Dora does this despite having 20 seconds of level flight less in which to do it. So to around 370-380, the Dora is arguably much better in terms of acceleration. The Dora then goes on accelerating to just over 400mph, which on my test was reached at time 6:10.

It seems the Dora is faster in terms of acceleration and max level  speed, but slower in the climb.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2003, 12:40:59 PM by beet1e »

Offline wetrat

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« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2003, 01:20:27 PM »
People who land good sorties in 109's are one of four things:

a) vulchers (most common)
b) rearmers
c) good shots
d) all of the above

The G10 handily out-performs the dora in an actual fight. Climbs better, turns better, accelerates better... without gondolas. Carrying gondolas in a 109 turns the thing into a led sled.
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Offline TimRas

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« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2003, 03:44:35 PM »
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Originally posted by beet1e

It seems the Dora is faster in terms of acceleration and max level  speed, but slower in the climb.


BTW, did you look the speeds from cockpit airspeed indicator ?. When I recorded the flight and looked it with film viewer I got the following top speeds at 10K (true):
G-10 with gondolas: 397 mph
G-10 without gondolas: 410mph
D-9: 404mph

It seems that the airspeed indicators are not very accurate.

Offline Drex

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« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2003, 05:19:25 PM »
Don't forget that I also float when im drunk.

Drex

Offline sling322

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« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2003, 05:30:53 PM »
LOL


:D

Offline WldThing

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« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2003, 05:33:42 PM »
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Originally posted by wetrat
People who land good sorties in 109's are one of four things:

a) vulchers (most common)
b) rearmers
c) good shots
d) all of the above


They couldnt just be good pilots, Could they? :)

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2003, 05:52:40 PM »
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Originally posted by wetrat
People who land good sorties in 109's are one of four things:

a) vulchers (most common)
b) rearmers
c) good shots
d) all of the above

The G10 handily out-performs the dora in an actual fight. Climbs better, turns better, accelerates better... without gondolas. Carrying gondolas in a 109 turns the thing into a led sled.
LOL Wetrat!  I think that sums it up.  :)

TimRas - I used the ASI readings only.

Offline rv6

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« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2003, 06:36:07 AM »
Hey Beet1e..

Come down outta' the Ionosphere with those nose-bleed alt, straight-line vulchers special, lady's planes and do some stall-fighting at 100' agl in an N1K!  A MANLY Type plane!


RV6

:-[   grrrrr..  (my mean scowl)

Offline SLO

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« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2003, 10:05:17 AM »
you beat a luftweenie plane that had alt. and speed adv. over you....WTG beet's:D

always tends to piss off the one that had the adv.....:cool:

I've had 3 hmm vets do that to me.....

2 of em whined like little girls.....after they died....

stick it to em limey...they deserve it.....:eek:

and MANX...beetle is a gentlemen....no need to be sarcastic with em....

Offline wetrat

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« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2003, 05:45:25 PM »
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Originally posted by WldThing
They couldnt just be good pilots, Could they? :)
They can be, but just being a good pilot doesn't land you a big sortie without rearming if you're just an average shot. Urchin's a better pilot than me, but I'm a better shot.. so I can more than likely land more without rearming.
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