Author Topic: Iraqi failures in the war  (Read 1426 times)

Offline StSanta

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Iraqi failures in the war
« on: April 14, 2003, 08:21:18 PM »
Much dreaded type of fighting was largely avoided by the Coalition who fought a smart war.

Initially, the Iraqi propaganda machine was superior to the Coalition one, but the dear Information Minister soon tripped on his own lies.

At any rate, I see several things the Iraqi regime did wrong. Of course since I suffer from insomnia and am a relatively dumb person who just wrote a lenghty pseudo-insulting post because it seemed like the right thing to do at the time, I'll most likely miss the important things, so feel free to contend things or add stuff.

  • Conventional forces allowed to be in the open. We've all seen the pictures of destroyed Iraqi tanks on the outskirts of towns and cities, along with APCs. It seems idiotic to me to place them there after having been subjugated to an air war that was devastating 12 years earlier. They should have learned
  • Using entrenched, static positions in the open for older tanks. Allows easy Panzer Plonking from the air, especially as metal cool down significantly slower than sand, allowing IR cameras a clear view of potential targets. The sand piled up in front of an old T-55 won't do much to the trajectory or power of a SABOT round; they'd need reinforced concrete and scrap iron to make the hull down positions viable.
  • Failure to not lure, but force, Coalition forces to do battle mainly inside cities where inferior Iraqi tanks can be placed in intelligent ways so that their old tanks can get a shot at the rear of US armoured vehicles. No large scale organized use of anti-tank teams in urban settings.
  •  Not a sufficient continency plan in case of C&C disruptions. It seems their static defense plans weren't adequately planned.
  • Insufficient use of weather. Sure they redeployed some armour but it was quickly rediscovered by Coalition forces, then pounded.
  • Underrating American armour. The Iraqi tank crews seemed to believe that their T-72s were a close match to Challenger II's and M1 Abrams. This is clearly not the case. Their BMPs were also proven to be inferior to the Bradleys
  • Late recruitment of Jihad suicide fighters. A large number early in the war could have given the Iraqis a propaganda victory
  • Inability to command the soldiers to fight as hard as possible. A minority did make it tough on the US by digging in hard; had more done so, there'd be more civilian casualties and damages to infrastructure, which again would be a propaganda coup.
  • Failure to destroy key bridges. They should have known they never would cross those bridges again.
  • Failure to kill enough of their own people. Perhaps they did plant a bomb at that marketplace, much like the Russian bombed their own apartment blocks as a justification for going into Chechnya. Again, a propaganda coup. They might lose the war, but at least the rest of the Arab world would foster many more Bin Ladens that way.
  • Poor use of potential propaganda victories. Destroying a  APCs or Bradleys and showing the burning hulk/bodies instead of attempting to first deal with M1s was unwise from a propaganda POW. The Iraqi regime didn't so much need to destroy the Coalition war machine as they needed to inflict lots of casualties. Had the dead quickly turned into thousands, the Coaliton would be under severe pressure
  • Failure to destroy oil wells. They knew that the war, once over, was gonna be financed by those wells. And they were going out one way or another, so might as well deny the Americans some cash for a while.
  • Failure to capitalize on opportunities, especially on the long supply lines the Coalition had to protect. General inflexibility and lack of initiative by commanders on the field.
  • Failure to create humanitarian disasters that could be blamed on the Coalition. This would have scored big with the anti-war crowd.


They did manage to opress the Iraqi population for a good while, but that came to an end eventually.

These are just from the top of my head. Some are obviously over simplifications, others might just be me being wrong. Anyone else have any additions? Would also be nice to discuss Coalition failures/shortcomings, although there are fewer of those.


Offline Toad

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Iraqi failures in the war
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2003, 08:34:48 PM »
Yeah, you missed the #1 most obvious error.......


Failure to cheerfully and immediately comply with UN SC 1441.

Would have saved all their troops and tanks right there.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Martlet

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Iraqi failures in the war
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2003, 08:36:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Yeah, you missed the #1 most obvious error.......


Failure to cheerfully and immediately comply with UN SC 1441.

Would have saved all their troops and tanks right there.


hell, they could have even skipped the cheerful part.

Offline Pongo

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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2003, 08:39:44 PM »
Toad. Do really believe that would have made any difference. The only evidence that would seem to have made the US happy was to see bunch of MWD. Which of course would have brought on an invasion.
The absenbce of any evidence was proof enough that they were hiding things...
It had nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction.

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2003, 08:43:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
Toad. Do really believe that would have made any difference. The only evidence that would seem to have made the US happy was to see bunch of MWD. Which of course would have brought on an invasion.
The absenbce of any evidence was proof enough that they were hiding things...
It had nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction.



had they forked over the WMD, and not hindered inspections, there would have been no war.

Offline Tumor

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Iraqi failures in the war
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2003, 08:43:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Yeah, you missed the #1 most obvious error.......


Failure to cheerfully and immediately comply with UN SC 1441.

Would have saved all their troops and tanks right there.


Yep
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann

Offline Hangtime

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Iraqi failures in the war
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2003, 09:01:38 PM »
#1 cause of failure..

put that mob of underfed, unpaid, maltreated conscripts up against a herd of cats.. and the conscripts still would have lost.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline StSanta

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Iraqi failures in the war
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2003, 09:03:52 PM »
LOL good point Toad.

I suspect it wouldn't have mattered though. Bush was set on doing it the instant he shipped those troops, possibly long before that.

My speculations only though.

But what did the Iraqi regime do wrong during the war in your opinion?

Hangtime, they would if yer cat produced a large enough litter, that is fer sure :D

Offline 10Bears

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Iraqi failures in the war
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2003, 09:09:49 PM »
But Toad.. what if you were to find out that Iraq did in fact comply with 1441?.

You workin' on your next spin?

Quote
had they forked over the WMD, and not hindered inspections, there would have been no war.


Heh..

Offline Martlet

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Iraqi failures in the war
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2003, 09:10:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 10Bears
But Toad.. what if you were to find out that Iraq did in fact comply with 1441?.

You workin' on your next spin?



Heh..


They didn't comply.  There is no "finding out"

Offline Sixpence

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Iraqi failures in the war
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2003, 09:12:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Yeah, you missed the #1 most obvious error.......


Failure to cheerfully and immediately comply with UN SC 1441.

Would have saved all their troops and tanks right there.


Not to mention some civilians.
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline Toad

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Iraqi failures in the war
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2003, 09:14:50 PM »
You seem to forget it wasn't until an actual army started to gather on their border that they even began to pretend to comply.

Which is not the same thing, is it?

BTW, you want to double down yet?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Gyro/T69

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Iraqi failures in the war
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2003, 09:50:27 PM »
the #1 most obvious error

Trying to draw to an inside straight against a Texan holding 4 Aces.

Offline 10Bears

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Iraqi failures in the war
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2003, 09:58:19 PM »
Hmm the son in law of Saddam Gen Kardice (spelling) the one they got most of the info from seemed to think Iraq got rid of it's WMD program in the mid 90s..

This man.. Lt. Gen. Amer al-Saadi is also saying the same thing. Why would he lie now?.. He's in no fear of his life or harm to come to his family.


So Martlet, when you say they didn't comply to 1441... appearently they did.. unless you can prove otherwise.

Offline Hangtime

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Iraqi failures in the war
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2003, 10:04:48 PM »
KARBALA, Iraq (CNN) -- U.S. troops have found 11 mobile laboratories buried south of Baghdad that are capable of biological and chemical uses, a U.S. general said Monday.

There were no chemical or biological weapons with the containerized labs, which measure 20 feet square. But soldiers recovered "about 1,000 pounds" of documents from inside the labs, and the United States will examine those papers further, said Brig. Gen. Benjamin Freakley of the Army's 101st Airborne Division.

"Initial reports indicate that this is clearly a case of denial and deception on the part of the Iraqi government," Freakley told CNN's Ryan Chilcote. "These chemical labs are present, and now we just have to determine what in fact they were really being used for."

-------------------------

Now ain't that odd.

10Bears.. how you want yer crow cooked?? I expect to see Toad serve it within the next week or so..
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.