Starving Iraqis

[Rude]

Hard headed? I've stepped in the many piles of dog**** placed around and about the O'Club...then walked right back and stepped in the same piles....all the while knowing that nothing I could say would change a thing.

[miko2d]

AKIron: Just waiting for you to spout off without the facts, yet again.

 You are lying here. That was not what happened. I said I will accuse you if you do not present the proof.

 You indicated you were not going to present any: "Go ahead Miko, I couldn't care less what you have to say anyhow."

 I would have waited for you to post the proofs as long as you needed but since you lied that you were not going to, I went ahead and said you were a liar right there. Which you are, just not in that perticular - I admit. In this case you are a weasel.

TheWobble: Yea, but somehow invading for no reason, using poisen gas AGAINST YOUR OWN people, murdering those who dont want to fight for you, and making chemical weapons, staving your country and its childen to death...[/i]

Dingy:

 OK, you really found some ignorant anti-war guys. That surely allows you to attribute nonsene to all your opponents.

 BTW, the INICEF and UN WFP reports that Dowding refers to in the same thread talk about malnutrition rather than starvation, even though that word is used. Malnutrition is very different from starvation - and mostly means less balanced food than optimal for survival.
 With destruction of infrastructure - mostly electrical grid - and inability of iraqis to rebuild it due to US ban on electrical equipment, a lot of the irrigated agriculture in Iraq became impossible and instead of growing their own greenery and livestock people had to flock into congested cities with contaminated water to exist on government-distributed canned food. While caloric intake was quite sufficient - especially for people who did not work, the lack of vitamins contributed to weakening of health - especially for newborn and children to make them suceptible to water-borne diseases.


 In the same thread Dowding refuted the stupid accusations of iraqi-caused starvation quite convincingly:
". A commonly cited second novus actus argument in favour of the sanctions runs that fewer people would starve if Hussein spent all the available funds on food and medicine instead of squandering it on luxuries for his elite.Leaving to one side both the fact that the total revenue from the programme is admitted by the UN to be inadequate and the question of how it is supposed that Hussein could spend oil-for-food money on luxuries when it is not under his control (it is released from escrow by the UN only against approved humanitarian contracts), this is again an argument without foundation. The failure of a third party to intervene to mitigate the effects of a criminal act can never excuse the act."

 If the money was received by UN and food delivered by UN and amount of oil sold was determined by UN, how could any action of iraqi government (playing tricks with money received for oil smuggled beyong the UN-mandated limit) cause any starvation?

 miko

[AKIron]

Originally posted by miko2d
You are lying here. Thatw as not what hepped. I said I will accuse you if you do not present the proof.

Awww, you're just sore 'cause ya got roped. Just don't be such a dope.

[miko2d]

Drunky: So you are saying that since this money was "misplaced" by a selfish government that it's still the UN's fault.  A concientious government would have decided it could find some of that money, that it didn't need so many grand palaces, it didn't need gold plated plumbing, etc.

  That was not what I said. I said that foof-for-oil program - money, limits, food, etc. were not under iraqi control. If there was not enogh money for food, UN would have increased it. The fact that there was surplus of the money proves that US did not consider it necessary to ship more food to Iraq.

 Whatever money iraqi regime pocketed, came not from oil-for-food but from smuggling and other illegal sources.

 But it was a good try to lie about what I said - keep it up and you will be as good as AKIron soon.

 miko

[Naso]

Originally posted by Rude
Give it up Iron....it's not about what's right...it's about envy, jealousy and the inability to stand down the rhetoric and see the truth.

Rude, you are "generally" wrong.

I mean, there is people that is envious, or jealous, but you cannot label all the people disagreeing, or opposing your government choises as you have made here.

It's offensive.

In our interconnected world, the US choises have an Huge importance for all of us, expecially for the western countries.

The road US have taken it's on an edge, with on one side a world completely "equalized" on US standard, or a glowing glass globe (as some bully here pointed sometime ) on the other side.

It's not funny.

11/9 has been something... I fail the words to describe, negative words.

But when you want to stop the bodycount to consider it avenged?

Never?

As I already have stated, what US is doing today, justifying the acts with 11/9, it's the main victory of OBL, it's a paradox, but is sadly true.

"The giant has rised", but the giant have not asked himself WHY those ants bited painfully his face, those ants are envious because he is so huge? or because he was unaware to being stomping on their formicaio (ant's house)?

He is now stomping harder, and voluntarly, now, and eventually will kill all the ants, is this right?

For the giant, yes, those are only ants, who cares.

For the ants, it's a little different, but, anyway, who cares?

OK, I know, I now have completely gained the label of "heart bleeding liberal" even if I am not..... flame on.

Damn pills...

[miko2d]

AKIron: Awww, you're just sore 'cause ya got roped. Just don't be such a dope.

 If it makes you feel better, you can imagine me in tears and rolling on the floor as a result of your "I am not talking-to you, no, wait I am", you little tease

 Does that compensate your hurt feelings for you lies being revealed?

 miko

[AKIron]

Originally posted by miko2d
AKIron: Awww, you're just sore 'cause ya got roped. Just don't be such a dope.

 If it makes you feel better, you can imagine me in tears and rolling on the floor as a result of your "I am not talking-to you, no, wait I am", you little tease

 Does that compensate your hurt feelings for you lies being revealed?

 miko

You're almost as amusing as Boroda, not quite yet though, keep trying, you'll get there.

[Monk]

Have to disagree Naso.

I think if we left those "ants" alone, the problem would still continue.
Most of the "ants" don't quite know why they are biting us in the face.
The big ant tells them to and they do it.

[GRUNHERZ]

Naso, honestly,  what do Italians know about defending their country? You are almost as bad as the French in that regard.. How bout you guys just comment on the things you know about, like spagetti, leather goods and fast expensive sports cars or unreliable little cars...

[Monk]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
unreliable little cars...

now,now..... I drive one of them little cars.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Naso
In our interconnected world, the US choises have an Huge importance for all of us, expecially for the western countries.

Naso, just because your statement may be correct does not mean that your (foreign government) desires will be fulfilled by the US. We have our own agenda as do you. If they happen to be mutually beneficial so much the better for us all. If not, well, our faithful allies will have some influence and possibly our powerful enemies. Others will have to be satisfied doing as Tommy Lasorda once put it "Watch things happen".

[Naso]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Naso, honestly,  what do Italians know about defending their country? You are almost as bad as the French in that regard.. How bout you guys just comment on the things you know about, like spagetti, leather goods and fast expensive sports cars or unreliable little cars...

And dont forget sex!

Well, anyway, if we want to consider our history as a continuity, we, as Romans, teached the world about war and engineering, then become fat and lazy, and some fresh and hungry tribe from East wiped us out....
Later, we started to explore commerce, and as Venice, Pisa and Genua, teached the world about exploring and building the first worldwide commerce net, then, devided and lazy, waged war each other, letting others grabbing the first line of the race....
Later we explored culture, and with Leonardo, Michelangelo, Galileo, and others teach the world abouth arts and science, then we become devided and lazy, and lost the edge....

Maybe we are too lazy??



(edited to add the Italics.)

[Naso]

Originally posted by AKIron
Naso, just because your statement may be correct does not mean that your (foreign government) desires will be fulfilled by the US. We have our own agenda as do you. If they happen to be mutually beneficial so much the better for us all. If not, well, our faithful allies will have some influence and possibly our powerful enemies. Others will have to be satisfied doing as Tommy Lasorda once put it "Watch things happen".

I am not stating that US must fulfill our desire, not at all, but I hope there is still space to disagree.... or not?

[Steve]

"The electric generators for sewage treatment plants, chlorine for water treatment and some medical equipment and supplies were not available to iraq not for the lack of funds but because of US embargo (actually UN embargo but with US vetoing particular requests for crucial stuff)."

This is so much bullcrap.
Saddam could smuggle in all sorts of weapons but couldn't bring in water treatment equipment?

Congrats, you've got a good chance of becoming the next Iraqi information minister.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by Naso
And dont forget sex!  

LOL yes that too, thx god for Monica Bellucci..