Starving iraqi

[funkedup]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I got into an argument with Scott Ritter once, he seemed pretty wierd in his beliefs and he has never really reconsiled his sudden public about face regrding iraqs WMD. I got the inpression he was pompus and arrogant man who enjoyed his notreity and like the attention he was getting by cahllenging the US govt. About the $400,000 to make a movie IIRC called Shifting Sands, which was about the damage caused to iraqi people by UN sanctions - this money came from a US based iraqi business man with  very close ties to the baath party and hussein. This man accompanied Ritter to iraq and facilitated his access in the country. I have not seen the movie, but I have heard it was the usual "approved" documentary you get in a police state.

He needed the money to pay for his child molestation defense.  Those lawyers are expensive.

[john9001]

the UN was not "duped", the UN was part of the "oil for palaces" program, the UN knew exactly where the money was going because they had to OK it, except for the kickback money, SH had control of that.

i like the gold plated guns SH's son had

so far, $750 million USD in cash found in baghdad, the money wrapers say "bank of lebanon".

[AKIron]

Originally posted by miko2d
AKIron: That's quite different from the "right" complaining about starving Iraqis.

 That is a good point. But why counter a lie with a lie rather than just say "there are no starving iraqis"? Even if true, it only makes a very weak argument, since the left will argue that without embargo the iraqi regime would not have starved its people, so the blame may still be assigned to us - by imposing the embargo or designing it and administering the food-for-oil program in the wrong way.

 The truth is that iraqis suffered a lot of deplorable deprivations because of embargo - which is why embargoes are used - but starvation was neither intent or result of such embaro if the evidence I (do not) see is correct. It certainly clears US from blame even it clears iraiqi regime of that blame as well. It may be hard for some to imagine that there is some evil the iraqi regime did not commit, but why be greedy? They were an evil regime, no doubt about it and there must be plenty real deeds to condemn them to hell.

Sheesh Miko. Why is it a lie to say "I don't know if your leftist claims are true but if they are then it isn't for lack of funds or supplies available to Iraq".

The "truth" is that Iraqis suffered a lot of "deplorable deprivations" because of their selfish and uncaring leaders.

[Mini D]

I haven't really participated in the "Starving Iraqis" discussions because I saw little evidence of it.  It seems if this were at epidemic proportions, we would have seen someone publishing stories on it.

Miko, in defense of the "Why hide a lie with a lie"... I don't think you are quite seeing it.  You cannot prove Iraqis aren't suffering as a result, because, as you've stated, its impossible to prove a negative.  If someone is using a lie that is difficult if not impossible to disprove, you simply turn the lie on itself.  "If that's the case, you need to figure you why its happening.  The money for food and medicine is there, but food and medicine aren't making it to the Iraqi people... WHY?"

I do think that the Iraqi government diverted money to the military.  Things such as water and waste treatment plants suffered as a result.  Where there may have been food, there was substandard water.  Especially in the outlying areas.  None of this was immediately life threatening, but would have been over time.

I'm hoping the issues in regards to the water treatment systems gets resolved as soon as possible.  Right now, water seems to be worth its weight in gold.

I'm also hoping that sanctions against Iraq be lifted immediately.  Not to do so is ignoring the reason they were imposed in the first place.

MiniD