Author Topic: Get rid of the Apache  (Read 868 times)

Offline davidpt40

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Get rid of the Apache
« on: April 23, 2003, 10:03:36 PM »
http://slate.msn.com/id/2081906/

Story summary(in 4 sentences)- Apache is a hunk of junk.  Airforce negligence caused many deaths in Vietnam.  One rebel Airforce General had the insight to make the A-10.  It needs to be brought back into service.

Offline rpm

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2003, 10:15:15 PM »
The A-10 IS still in service, in several different configurations. The Army also knows of the shortcomings of the Apache, thats why the Comanche is in final development stages. Every weapon has a weakness, and after a time the Enemy will learn how to exploit that weakness. A machine designed to operate in the European Forests obviously won't do as well in the open desert with no cover to hide behind as it was designed.
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Offline Stringer

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2003, 10:18:09 PM »
Apache might be a post potato, but that's no reason to get rid of him!!

Offline Toad

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2003, 10:33:48 PM »
Nothing wrong with the hardware.

The tactics were simply wrong for the situation and they should have known that.

They went back with a combined arms approach using the A-10 and it worked the way it should.
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Offline NUKE

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Re: Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2003, 10:51:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by davidpt40
http://slate.msn.com/id/2081906/

Story summary(in 4 sentences)- Apache is a hunk of junk.  Airforce negligence caused many deaths in Vietnam.  One rebel Airforce General had the insight to make the A-10.  It needs to be brought back into service.


The A-10 is one awesome plane for what it was designed for.....killing armor

Offline Tumor

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Re: Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2003, 10:56:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by davidpt40
http://slate.msn.com/id/2081906/

.... One rebel Airforce General had the insight to make the A-10.  It needs to be brought back into service.



Soooo.... what planet are you from anyway?
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Offline Arlo

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2003, 11:08:32 PM »
Eh ... he's just repeating what he read and believed. *ShruG*

Offline Montezuma

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2003, 01:35:47 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
Eh ... he's just repeating what he read and believed. *ShruG*



You really should read that article.

The A-10 should be back into *production*.

Offline funkedup

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2003, 02:10:47 AM »
A-10's are great.
They are not a substitute for organic attack helicopter units.

Offline davidpt40

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2003, 03:09:39 AM »
Yeah, I meant to say production.  

Quote
Soooo.... what planet are you from anyway?

I was just summarizing the article, not implying my bias.

As far as my opinion, the A-10 is a very tough plane and the Apache is relatively fragile.  However, the Apache is probably a better troop-killer because of its low speed.  While A-10s have to make long strafing runs, the AH-64 can get in close and low.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2003, 03:13:00 AM »
You mean the article is saying Iraqis were shooting at us?  Gawd, why wasnt I told about this? :D

Offline Raubvogel

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2003, 07:27:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by davidpt40
Yeah, I meant to say production.  

 

the Apache is relatively fragile.  


You know absolutely nothing about the Apache. They are an extremely tough helicopter. Rotary wing aircraft are inherently more apt to become unflyable to battle damage. That's the price for having to rely on a rotating wing that ceases to generate lift if it stops spinning. However, the Apache is able to take an amazing amount of battle damage compared to other helicopters. I've seen this first hand.

As Toad said, the debacle at Karbala had nothing to do with the equipment and everything to do with tactics. Our helicopter force has certain advantages that were not used during this operation. Conducting a deep strike mission in broad daylight with no reconnaissance is usually a poor idea.  The Apache's strengths are it's ability to attack at night and from a standoff distance.

The fact that 30 were shot up and all but one returned to base should be a testament to its toughness, not a strike against it. I read that article yesterday, and that guy is full of ****. Saying that a weapons program should be scrapped because of a few training accidents? That's ludicrous.

Just FYI rpm371, the Commanche is not meant to replace the Apache. It is being developed to fill a gap in our capabilities at the moment. It will eventually replace the OH-58D Kiowa Warrior in the armed reconnaissance role. It will be far more lethal than the Kiowa though. In the past, the Cavalry air troops used a mix of Kiowas and Cobras. With the demise of the Cobra, the Kiowa has had to assume both roles. It has a very limited payload though. The Commanche will be able to play both roles well. The Apache will still be the heavy hitter in the Attack helicopter units though.

Offline davidpt40

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2003, 07:53:24 AM »
Quote
You know absolutely nothing about the Apache.


Stfu, I said relatively fragile, as compared to the A-10.

Offline Apache

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2003, 07:55:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Stringer
Apache might be a post potato, but that's no reason to get rid of him!!


ROFLMAO you cherry picker! :)

I saw the title of this thread and thought...what the heck did I do?!

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2003, 07:58:39 AM »
You cant compare a helicopter to a fixed wing support plane, they do entirely different missions and server distinct roles with different units. You cannot replace attack helicopters with fixed wing planes.  

But if you want to stick to your bad comparsions I say we replace all A-10s with M1A2 Abrams, they are much better protected and tougher while killing ebemy tanks, vehicles, and toops just a good.