Author Topic: Any aircraft owners in here...? (Read 1195 times)

crowMAW · « **Reply #15 on:** April 30, 2003, 10:44:31 AM »

I'll back everything folks have already said. I solely owned my plane for one year and after that I started a syndicate. It is almost impossible to financially justify sole ownership unless you fly the plane for commercial purposes or put a ton of personal hours on it.

The only advantage of owning/partnering over renting is to choose the plane that you want to fly (that was my reason). If you want to fly a 172 and you can rent one...then rent...let someone else worry about the maintenance, insurance and storage. If you must have something that is rare, fun or unusual...then buy.

LePaul · « **Reply #16 on:** April 30, 2003, 10:53:59 AM »

I know exactly what you mean...renting gets old after a while, where I rent, there are only 2 172s to select from. Scheduling is a nightmare. I can't tell you how many times I've waited in the lobby for the airplane to return while a student pilot, or some inconsiderate jerk keeps the airplane out beyond their scheduled slot, only to tell you "Man its just so nice out there today, I lost track of time!"...thus your time is shortened so the guy behind you can get his flying time too.

I understand the cross country flying desire...and I understand the FBO's policy of charging 4 hours per day. Those are days they could rent the bird while you have it. So, they make up what they are loosing in potential rentals.

I tried going the experimental aircraft route. Found a gorgeous BD-5 that was 90% complete and the A&P who owned it had to sell it be request of the wife. I got it very cheap and had great plans to have it finished and fly it. I just had no real time and wound up just doing more renting! I'm not much of a builder...ever sit next to a almost done airplane, parts everywhere, and wonder "what next" when your only building experience is wooden birdhouses back in Boy Scouts? LOL. So, I decided that building a complex aircraft probably wasnt a great idea...and the costs to have it finished for me were pretty high too. I was going to do it, but had a 747 pilot call. He'd heard about my plane and HAD to see it. I really wasn't in the mood to sell it but when he offered 2x what I paid for it, happily helped him shove it in his trailer

I've never considered the joint ownership things because what happens if both partners want the airplane over Labor Day? The whole reason for having your own plane, for the independence to fly when you want to fly has just been nixxed.

I guess I'm greedy. If I'm going to invest in an airplane, its mine mine mine. Sadly, all the expenses too!

So, I'm right back to renting again.

Maverick...the flying club used to have a Commanche....a lot of fun to fly, good speed and good looking. I envy you!

Creamo · « **Reply #17 on:** April 30, 2003, 10:58:08 AM »

Tell us about the all glass avionics upgrade again LePaul, lol...

LePaul · « **Reply #18 on:** April 30, 2003, 11:00:26 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Creamo
Tell us about the all glass avionics upgrade again LePaul, lol...

Bastid!

Hey I had cardboard mockups from the company...actually one of the BD-5 jets is equipped with them, and another is in the midst of having a HUD installed

EDIT: Here's the panel they are finishing up...

http://www.bd5.com/n21ap_pnl.jpg

Creamo · « **Reply #19 on:** April 30, 2003, 11:04:19 AM »

You'd of killed yourself anyway in that thing, $100,000 in debt wouldn't have made a diffrence!

LePaul · « **Reply #20 on:** April 30, 2003, 11:06:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Creamo
You'd of killed yourself anyway in that thing, $100,000 in debt wouldn't have made a diffrence!

Perhaps....I'd love to fly one sometime. The more I researched the BD-5, and spoke to the guys who flew them and built them, the more I became convinced it could be a safe plane.

You're right...ViperJet!

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #21 on:** April 30, 2003, 02:43:59 PM »

Don't buy, BUILD!

Check out the Experimental Aircraft Association.

There are probably 500+ different a/c to choose from, and some can have you flying in months.

Choose from an ultralite from 10k to a Lancair 4P. (Kits start at 100k but it does 300+kts.)

BIY and you get a new, efficient airplane, built of of state of the art materials.... not a design of the 50's

LePaul · « **Reply #22 on:** April 30, 2003, 11:01:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Don't buy, BUILD!

Check out the Experimental Aircraft Association.

There are probably 500+ different a/c to choose from, and some can have you flying in months.

Choose from an ultralite from 10k to a Lancair 4P. (Kits start at 100k but it does 300+kts.)

BIY and you get a new, efficient airplane, built of of state of the art materials.... not a design of the 50's

Two words: Insurance Premiums

If, that is, you can get any.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #23 on:** May 01, 2003, 12:01:41 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by LePaul
Two words: Insurance Premiums

If, that is, you can get any.

The EAA can help there too.

www.EAA.org

Check out the EAA Aircraft Insurance Plan

Registrations for new amature built have outstripped production a/c registrations for quite a few years now, and with some 51% kits, you can build all the tough stuff in a couple of weeks 'vacation'

Badger · « **Reply #24 on:** May 01, 2003, 06:26:32 AM »

1974 C172(M)

Both wife and I are pilots. We bought because renting was virtually impossible to do, when trying to match up good flying days and weather with the availability of few rental aircraft.

The C172 was a good choice to balance capital costs, annual maintenance costs, insurance premiums against how often we would actually fly. We primarily fly around the province for the proverbial $100 breakfast, but we have taken long cross countries to Myrtle Beach from Toronto.

Nice aircraft.. Very forgiving and learned to fly on that type including spin training. I do prefer a Zlin for acrobatics though.

Regards,
Badger

Dux · « **Reply #25 on:** May 01, 2003, 07:25:30 AM »

OT: Hey Badger, do you ever fly out of Guelph airport? Several years ago I helped ferry an R22 there from Boston. Nice trip, beautiful area.

Back on Topic: I think building would be a rewarding experience, but I'm not setup to do that any time soon. And in all seriousness, I think I'd just rather stay in something "tried and true" (not knocking homebuilts, just my preference).

Although I'd give anything to fly the BD-5 just once...

Badger · « **Reply #26 on:** May 01, 2003, 07:45:59 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dux
OT: Hey Badger, do you ever fly out of Guelph airport? Several years ago I helped ferry an R22 there from Boston. Nice trip, beautiful area.

Yup.... We're hangered at Buttonville (CYKZ), but fly all over south western Ontario including the Guelph/Kitchener area. True..... lovely countryside to fly over and view, plus lots of nicer flat farmer's fields for those FA's.

I would stick to FAA certified aircraft as well, particularly unless you were the one actually building an EAA type critter, or really knew the seller and his skills well that built one you might be considering buying. Also think about re-sale value and how easily one could sell what you own if you wanted to get out or trade up. The C172 is a very easy re-sell since most students finishing training who possess the capital, often go right into buying that type of aircraft.

Regards,
Badger

LePaul · « **Reply #27 on:** May 01, 2003, 01:43:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
The EAA can help there too.

www.EAA.org

Check out the EAA Aircraft Insurance Plan

Registrations for new amature built have outstripped production a/c registrations for quite a few years now, and with some 51% kits, you can build all the tough stuff in a couple of weeks 'vacation'

I don't mean to sound condescending, but honestly, have you call and checked rates? I mean, call and tell them you have 300 hours in C172s, are building a Lancair and ask the costs, and if they would cover you?

I have a better chance of getting coverage on a cannon if I were to become a human cannonball perfromer versus my BD-5.

If you follow rec.aviation.homebuilt, you see folks are really having a hard time with insurance since 9/11. Its not as rosey as you make it sound.

Sparks · « **Reply #28 on:** May 01, 2003, 02:56:54 PM »

Just my 2cents

I'm not an owner but been around light aircraft and airports all my life fixing them.

If you're thinking 172 then maybe look at Grumman Cheetah / Traveler / Tiger. I know at least 2 people who were looking at 172's as first buys and bought Grumman instead. Nicer handling and better performance.

Here is the owners club website.
http://www.aya.org/

When buying CHECK THE AD's AGAIN AND AGAIN - I have seen sooooo many folks bitten in the bellybutton by AD's. Also check for unusual hard to get parts - example:- friend bought SIAI-MARCHETTI SF260 and on next annual it needed new aileron cables 18 months later he was still waiting for them ...........

Also make sure the avionics do EXACTLY what you want - e.g. are the NAVs and COMs up to date, Transponder mode S etc. ?Upgrades will eat cash fast.

Also paint and plastic - is the finish ok? A poor paint job (either new badly done or old faded not looked after) may be an indicator of corrosion and poor maintenance in my experience. Canopies that are crazed / scratched may be very expensive to replace.

Just a few points .... there are many more.

Would I own one if I could - definitely - to be able to just wheel it out and go when you want where you want for how long you want....... priceless.

Sparks

GrimCO · « **Reply #29 on:** May 02, 2003, 07:54:50 AM »

Sparks,

Thanks for bringing up the Grummans... I completely forgot to suggest that line of aircraft to Dux.

Being an A&P mechanic myself, I'll vouch for their durability and maintenance costs on par with a 172. Grumman builds a great little airplane.

And BTW Dux, I didn't mean to paint an overly dismal picture of aircraft ownership. What I really meant to say in all actuality is that if you can truly afford to own one, BUY ONE.

If you can marginally afford to own one, just be careful. Any aircraft will spring sudden repairs on you that can be quite costly from time to time. There is NOTHING that compares to owning your own airplane if it doesn't put you in a bind financially.