Author Topic: Those terrible Americans?  (Read 3028 times)

Offline Dago

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Those terrible Americans?
« on: May 01, 2003, 02:38:51 AM »
A few on these boards seem to jump at every single opportunity to attack the USA and everything it does.  Kinda gets old really, and pretty much when viewed in historical context, quite foolish.

I would like to post a couple things I have been sent or read, just to be considered.

A passage from a speech given by Colin Powell while speaking at the World Economic Forum:

Quote
There is nothing in American experience or in American political life or in our culture that suggests we want to use hard power. But what we have found over the decades is that unless you do have hard power -- and here I think you're referring to military power -- then sometimes you are faced with situations that you can't deal with.

I mean, it was not soft power that freed Europe. It was hard power. And what followed immediately after hard power? Did the United States ask for dominion over a single nation in Europe? No. Soft power came in the Marshall Plan. Soft power came with American GIs who put their weapons down once the war was over and helped all those nations rebuild. We did the same thing in Japan.

 So our record of living our values and letting our values be an inspiration to others I think is clear. And I don't think I have anything to be ashamed of or apologize for with respect to what America has done for the world.

We have gone forth from our shores repeatedly over the last hundred years and we’ve done this as recently as the last year in Afghanistan and put
wonderful young men and women at risk, many of whom have lost their lives, and we have asked for nothing except enough ground to bury them in, and
otherwise we have returned home to seek our own, you know, to seek our own lives in peace, to live our own lives in peace. But there comes a time
when soft power or talking with evil will not work where, unfortunately, hard power is the only thing that works.




Something else I have been sent that I found refreshing, from Canadien Broadcaster Gordon Sinclair, back sometime during the Vietnam War. A little dated now, but I think the message isn't lost completly.

Quote
The United States dollar took another pounding on German, French and British      exchanges this morning, hitting the lowest point ever known in West Germany. It has declined there by 41% since 1971 and this Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least-appreciated people in all the earth.

As long as sixty years ago, when I first started to read newspapers, I read of floods on the
Yellow River and the Yangtse. Who rushed in with men and money to help? The Americans did.

They have helped control floods on the Nile, the Amazon, the Ganges and the Niger. Today,the rich bottom land of the Misssissippi is under water and no foreign land has sent a dollar to help. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy, were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of those countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries into help...
Managua Nicaragua is one of the most recent examples. So far this spring, 59 American
communities have been flattened by tornadoes. Nobody has helped.

The Marshall Plan .. the Truman Policy .. all pumped billions upon billions of dollars into
discouraged countries. Now, newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent war-mongering Americans.

I'd like to see one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States
dollar build its own airplanes.

Come on... let's hear it! Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar or the Douglas 107? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all international lines except Russia fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or women on the moon?

You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times ... and safely home again. You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everyone to look at.

Even the draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, most of
them ... unless they are breaking Canadian laws .. are getting American dollars from Ma and Pa at home to spend here.

When the Americans get out of this bind ... as they will... who could blame them if they said
'the hell with the rest of the world'. Let someone else buy the Israel bonds, Let someone else
build or repair foreign dams or design foreign buildings that won't shake apart in earthquakes.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name to you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble.

Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbours have faced it alone and I am one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do,they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles.

I hope Canada is not one of these. But there are many smug, self-righteous Canadians. And finally, the American Red Cross was told at its 48th Annual meeting in New Orleans this morning that it was broke.

This year's disasters .. with the year less than half-over… has taken it all and nobody...but nobody... has helped.
 


So, guys like Hortlund and GScholz and so many others can routinely attack and try to find fault with everything we do, it doesn't really matter.  The USA will regardless be there to help when needed, we will remain strong and we will remain the greatest nation on earth.

dago
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline beet1e

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Those terrible Americans?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2003, 05:40:02 AM »
I've spent years in America, and enjoyed it. I still have open invitations to visit friends in NY, VT, CA, and one who's just moved to OR.

But America is not perfect, and like anywhere else has its problems.

Quote
The USA will regardless be there to help when needed, we will remain strong and we will remain the greatest nation on earth.
yeah, yeah. I don't disagree, but I get sick of all the American bragging done by people who were born after the events that made America what it is today. And the rest of the world is sick of American jerks who never set foot outside their home town, and seek to ride on the coat tails of men who died in military conflicts in the service of America and the rest of the civilised world.

Don't bother to reply. Your NUKE-style chest beating has earned you a place on my ignore list.

Offline Mini D

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Those terrible Americans?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2003, 05:44:53 AM »
So... just to clear up any confusion here beet1e.

Its OK for Americans to take blame for things that happened in their in the past... but not credit?

Gotcha.

MiniD

Offline Dowding

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Those terrible Americans?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2003, 05:57:31 AM »
A few on these boards seem to jump at every single opportunity to attack Europe and everything it does. Kinda gets old really, and pretty much when viewed in historical context, quite foolish.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline beet1e

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Those terrible Americans?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2003, 06:04:39 AM »
Mini D - I'm not one of the ones who criticises America for past mistakes if we're talking about military blunders. I'm not a "told-you-so" kind of guy.

Dowding is right - as always.

Offline Mini D

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Those terrible Americans?
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2003, 06:12:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
A few on these boards seem to jump at every single opportunity to attack Europe and everything it does. Kinda gets old really, and pretty much when viewed in historical context, quite foolish.
I missed in this thread where he bashed Europe... and merrited the repose of the British contingent.  I mean.. you guys didn't come in here to say "what about them" now did you?

Basically... you showed up here to dowse someone's "proud to be an American" thread.  Fine.  Just don't play it off as superior or noble.  It is neither.  Refer to the last word of the quote above.

MiniD

Offline Dowding

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Those terrible Americans?
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2003, 06:48:02 AM »
I'm sorry, where did I refer to him in my post?

And while you're at it, try and dispute that my alteration is as true as the original.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Mini D

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Those terrible Americans?
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2003, 06:50:14 AM »
There was someone else in this thread you were replying to dowding?  Or are you saying you simply made a random statement in a random thread?

Come now dowding, no need to play this stupid.

MiniD

Offline Dowding

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Those terrible Americans?
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2003, 06:56:17 AM »
Where am I accusing him of being one of the people in the quote? It's in response to his opening paragraph, but that does not neccessarily mean he is included in it.

And once again, is my quote no less true than Dago's?
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Mini D

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Those terrible Americans?
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2003, 07:00:01 AM »
Damn dowding... play ignorant all you want.  You didn't stumble into this thread and you didn't accidently quote the original poster with one minor change.

Pretend it wasn't him you were sarcastically replying to all you want.  If it makes you feel any better, you can turn to beet1e for moral support.

Sheesh.  Why are so many people taking the "let's play dumb" aproach these days?  Eventually, people are going to stop believing you are playing.

MiniD

Offline Saintaw

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Those terrible Americans?
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2003, 07:23:09 AM »
He said "on these boards" Md, not "That dude posting this thread".

There are I suppose very little poeple who earned respect by their previous acts, but if you look at this board, you'd think we're all old aged WWII heroes of some sorts. And no, am not aiming at anyon in this thread in particular, just talking about the world in general.
Saw
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Offline Mini D

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Those terrible Americans?
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2003, 07:29:14 AM »
I'll say this once again... very slowly for you Brits and Frenchies..

"I missed in this thread where he bashed Europe... and merrited the repose of the British contingent. I mean.. you guys didn't come in here to say "what about them" now did you?"

You can't seriously be arguing that this wasn't done.  Dowding's post did not say "what about them"?

MiniD

Offline Saintaw

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Those terrible Americans?
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2003, 07:35:27 AM »
Of course this was done by both sides, does that disqualify me from commenting ? I can show you a bunch of local jackarses anytime you want, I'm sure you can do the same :)
Saw
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Offline Toad

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Those terrible Americans?
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2003, 07:39:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
I'll say this once again... very slowly for you Brits and Frenchies..

MiniD


Now MiniD, for a guy that's currently on a crusade to highlight some of the BS on this BBS, isn't this a bit of a gratuitous insult?

I mean, can't we all just get along?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Mini D

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Those terrible Americans?
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2003, 07:42:52 AM »
Feel free to start up a thread doing so saw.

The original poster made a statement.  So far, the only real response has been "oh yeah! well they do it too!"  It might as well have been "I'm rubber and you're glue, what you say bounces off me and sticks to you."  They're both about as ignorant.

MiniD