Author Topic: Communism  (Read 2055 times)

blue1

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Communism
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2003, 06:48:17 AM »
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, literally but if you mean in terms of what it STOOD for then initially a rather idealistic Marxist point of view that everyone is equal, no rich elite or aristocracy, no one owns property or at least not too much property to the detriment of others. Nobody goes short of food and has a place to live and has opportunities both educational and careerwise.

Apart from the property bit it's more or less what everyone wants capitalist, communist, socialist, fascist or whatever.  What went wrong was that it became a repressive dictatorial regime in which surprise surprise there evolved a relatively rich elite, not everyone was equal and the opportunities only went to those who toed the party line. What collapsed it was that people has no incentive to work harder and improve their lot. Getting a medal for inventing something is poor compensation, a payrise is more motivating. The other issue is the lack of freedom that Communism all too often leads too.  

To go back to the original question. I think Bulgaria voted in a Communist government and Poland. But the big differnce is that if the people choose to vote them out in the next election they go. Because they are now proper democrats.

France and Italy have long standing democratic Communist parties and quite often in France the local council and Mayor are Communists elected in free and fair elections.

But has anyone ever voted in a Communist government knowing that they would repress other parties and confiscate the property of the rich and set up a workers Soviet?  No I don't think so. Let's face it, who would?

Offline straffo

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« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2003, 07:49:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
God Bless General Pinochet!


Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2003, 08:08:18 AM »
:)

BTW Straffo i have still not gotten your 2nd email.. :(

Offline Lizard3

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Communism
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2003, 08:31:29 AM »
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Originally posted by Mini D
Poland?

Might have been Russia... don't recall how their government "adjusted"


LOL

Offline Lizard3

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« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2003, 08:38:29 AM »
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Originally posted by Mini D
There's also Mongolia:

http://www.cbs.curtin.edu.au/Workingpapers/ef/9901.htm

MiniD


From your link:

"On the 30th June 1996, Mongolia’s Democratic Union Coalition, won a big victory. They captured 60 of the Mongolian parliament’s 76 seats. This ended 75 years of unbroken communist rule."

So, I don't think that ones it.

Offline Mini D

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« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2003, 09:30:44 AM »
I misread the initial post... thought you asked who voted to move away from Communism.

MiniD

Offline udet

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Communism
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2003, 10:50:58 AM »
The Great Republic of Drunken Retardia

Offline Lizard3

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Communism
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2003, 08:57:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by blue1
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, literally but if you mean in terms of what it STOOD for then initially a rather idealistic Marxist point of view that everyone is equal, no rich elite or aristocracy, no one owns property or at least not too much property to the detriment of others. Nobody goes short of food and has a place to live and has opportunities both educational and careerwise.

Apart from the property bit it's more or less what everyone wants capitalist, communist, socialist, fascist or whatever.  What went wrong was that it became a repressive dictatorial regime in which surprise surprise there evolved a relatively rich elite, not everyone was equal and the opportunities only went to those who toed the party line. What collapsed it was that people has no incentive to work harder and improve their lot. Getting a medal for inventing something is poor compensation, a payrise is more motivating. The other issue is the lack of freedom that Communism all too often leads too.  

To go back to the original question. I think Bulgaria voted in a Communist government and Poland. But the big differnce is that if the people choose to vote them out in the next election they go. Because they are now proper democrats.

France and Italy have long standing democratic Communist parties and quite often in France the local council and Mayor are Communists elected in free and fair elections.

But has anyone ever voted in a Communist government knowing that they would repress other parties and confiscate the property of the rich and set up a workers Soviet?  No I don't think so. Let's face it, who would?


Blue figured it out. None. Nada. Zip.

No nation has ever freely voted to adopt a communist form of government.

I wonder why?

Offline vorticon

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Communism
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2003, 09:15:21 PM »
communism of today and even in russia at the start was nothing like what marx actually wanted...

you see in russia they brough EVERYONE down to the level of a pauper but what marx wanted was everyone to be brought up or down to the middle class...wich is why he said it would only really work in a place like england where much of the population already was middle class...

as for actually electing a communist government...didnt one of those little central asian places do it???

Offline Erlkonig

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« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2003, 09:34:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lizard3
Blue figured it out. None. Nada. Zip.

No nation has ever freely voted to adopt a communist form of government.

I wonder why?


Well no ****.  Even the communists agree that their form of government requires a violent overthrow of the existing social order.  Have you heard of the phrase, "the dictatorship of the proletariat"?  

The Soviets also supported international revolution, at least while Lenin was alive.  The Communist International was basically a way of supporting revolutionaries in other (especially European) countries as they tried to organize proletarian upgrisings against their government.  I hope you didn't think that they were pouring money into making election posters and buttons.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2003, 09:38:20 PM by Erlkonig »

Offline crabofix

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« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2003, 06:08:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
God Bless General Pinochet!



Thought I seen it all, just waiting for him to praise Hitler and Franco next.

Your out of line, GRUNHERZ and you better shape up.

Offline SaburoS

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Re: Communism
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2003, 06:17:23 AM »
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Originally posted by Lizard3
Name the one nation that elected to change to a communist form of government in fair and free elections?


LOL, it would have been more accurate to ask:

Name just one nation that elected to change to a communist form of government in fair and free elections?

Your question is making the statement of there actually being one nation that did vote to change to a communist form of government.  

Amazing what just one word will do to a statement/question.
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2003, 06:34:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by crabofix
Thought I seen it all, just waiting for him to praise Hitler and Franco next.

Your out of line, GRUNHERZ and you better shape up.


Franco was great and a very smart guy to keep his nation out of WW2. I am glad Spain did not become a communist country because the republicans were just that - thinly veiled communists. So yea I will praise Franco, barring any new info anout him being really terrible I am quite comfortable in my attitude towards him. He was great for Spain.

As for Hitler - well I think he started a totaly unneccesary war and did all manner of terrible things to europe, the world and of  germany and of course humanity.  If he wasnt so evil in his hatred of racial/cultural groups I think he could have done better for his country becaiuse maybe then he would not have persecuted jews and started so many wars. His early economic and political steps were largely succesful in bringing Germany out of depression and world political/economic nothingness due to versailles. In the end he was just too bad a guy and his wishes were always clearly for a war to impose nazi political and racial domination on europe - which is not good for all the obvious resons.

Pinochet. Salvador Allende was a communist stooge and a friend of fidel castro so good riddance to him. Thats all I have to say about Pinochet.

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2003, 06:36:52 AM »
oops - nm :D

Offline crabofix

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« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2003, 07:28:16 AM »
Well Grunherz, hope they deport ya back to "yogolan" where you belong.