Author Topic: For the People By The People...Yeah, Right!!  (Read 810 times)

Offline CurtissP-6EHawk

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1452
For the People By The People...Yeah, Right!!
« on: May 04, 2003, 04:36:23 AM »
People vote for different political parties for many different reasons. Today many conservatives vote Republican believing that the Republican party will protect their heritage, gun rights, limit government and reduce taxes. To their credit the Republicans have reduced taxes. But what good does that do when at the same time they expand government? How will we pay for this expansion? The answer is deficit spending. Since 9-11 under the leadership of the Republicans government has expanded by leaps and bounds in the name of safety. The truth is when government expands we are less free and far less safe.

The Republican Party must also expand government in the form of social programs. For instance many principals get compromised away to cut deals with the Democratic Party. As when Bush threw more money at the education problem to please Ted Kennedy. Everyone knows that more money will not fix the problem. But when it comes time to face the music Bush and the rest of the Republicans can always use the excuse that they have given more funding to education than any other previous administration.

Along with increasing the size of government we have fought two wars and have won two wars. However, these “victories” will require the long-term presence of our military to prevent the “crows from coming back to roost”.

Do I think the President made a mistake by reducing taxes? No, of course not. But government expansion is paid for by deficit spending the value of our dollar decreases and the economy is weakened. This cancels out any good that the tax cut might have done to begin with.

The Democratic Party is suffering from it’s own problems right now. Traditionally a melting pot for blue-collar union workers, civil rights groups, and minorities, the party seems to be splintering into a million different fragments. After the defeat of Al Gore in 2000 they seem to have recognized that they needed a change in strategy, but they still haven’t figured out what that should be.

To the Democrats credit, they recognize the dangers of deficit spending. The trouble is, they like the Republicans seek to expand government. Unlike the Republicans they have a plan to pay for their expansion. Raise taxes. This will reduce the deficit and balance the budget, but it will hurt the economy. When all taxes are considered, regulatory, local, state and federal, the average American pays 50 % of their wages in taxes.

When taxes are raised it increases the cost of doing business in the United States. Businesses relocate outside of the United States to become more profitable. The economy suffers and the tax revenues that were being used to pay for the expansion of government begin to dwindle. Which leads us back to...deficit spending.

Two very different parties with one very common problem. How to pay for the expense of running the government. To that I have one simple solution, stop expanding it!

So if both parties are hurting the economy, why do we continue to elect them? Why doesn’t either party do something to actually fix the problem? This answer is simple. Both parties run on the campaign promises that they will fix the problem but it never gets fixed. Why? You may ask. The answer is that if the problem gets fixed there will be no need for the candidate any longer.

Politicians from both parties like to give the appearance that they are “working on the problem”. When election time rolls around again they can claim that they have made “great strides towards our goals”. This statement is usually followed by another by the incumbent candidate, “ but in order for us to achieve our goals you must re-elect me!”. Thus the circle continues.

The economy isn’t the only problem this scenario applies to. Take the state of Georgia right now.

During Governor Barnes term civil rights groups threatened an economic boycott if the state flag was not changed and the large Confederate flag removed. The change was made without the consent of the people. This angered many Georgians. Along comes candidate Perdue with the promise that if elected he would “fix the problem”.

Governor Barnes tried to fix the problem to avoid an economic boycott and to try and heal years of racial injustice. He made the problem worse. Governor Perdue tried to fix the problem by promising to decide the fate of Georgia’s flag by a vote of the people. He didn’t. Instead he compromised and made the problem worse.

Civil Rights groups are not happy because they defeated the ’56 flag. No they are mad because the compromise flag is a prominent Confederate symbol. So why did Georgia’s black legislators vote for this “divisive” symbol? To fix the problem?

No they voted on it so there would still be a problem to fix.

Republicans, the tax cuts you applaud are useless if your party continues to expand government.

Democrats, the tax increase you voted for to eliminate the deficit is useless if it drives business out of the country.

Supporters of Civil Rights groups, the money you donate to fight racism is wasted. The money you donate furthers racial tension. Because like any other politician if the problem gets fixed your leaders are out of a job. When your " leaders" threaten economic boycott does it not effect black workers in Georgia? How are they helping by threatenig the economy of your state? When your leaders threaten economic boycott they are threatening your jobs too!

People of Georgia, black and white when will you learn the career politicians are not your friends?

The only way to fix the problem in Georgia is to let the people vote, not the politicians.



Clint Lacy

Offline NUKE

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8599
      • Arizona Greens
For the People By The People...Yeah, Right!!
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2003, 08:44:35 AM »
In what ways did the government expand?

Offline Mini D

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6897
      • Fat Drunk Bastards
For the People By The People...Yeah, Right!!
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2003, 09:16:32 AM »
Homeland security is one that comes to mind.

Offline NUKE

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8599
      • Arizona Greens
For the People By The People...Yeah, Right!!
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2003, 09:20:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
Homeland security is one that comes to mind.


Really? All that did was combine existing agencies into one agency. Seems more efficient to me.

Offline Tarmac

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3988
For the People By The People...Yeah, Right!!
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2003, 09:42:07 AM »
Homeland Security also gave Tom Ridge the ability to hire employees without going through the traditional civil service exams.  Brings up a lot of questions about political patronage being rewarded with jobs.  Nearly limitless jobs.

Offline hawk220

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1127
For the People By The People...Yeah, Right!!
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2003, 10:31:00 AM »
Seems more efficient to me.


BWAAA HAAAA

Der Fatherl...um.. Homeland Security is the largest beaurocracy in the whole of human history..

Offline john9001

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9453
For the People By The People...Yeah, Right!!
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2003, 11:08:42 AM »
i hear canada is a nice place to live and they even let unhappy americans move there.

Offline Mini D

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6897
      • Fat Drunk Bastards
For the People By The People...Yeah, Right!!
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2003, 01:22:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Really? All that did was combine existing agencies into one agency. Seems more efficient to me.
Really?  Name one agency that is no longer.  You confuse "drew from..." to mean something else.  It is additional government.  Everyone that fills a slot there has to be replaced somewhere else.

MiniD

Offline NUKE

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8599
      • Arizona Greens
For the People By The People...Yeah, Right!!
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2003, 01:24:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
Really?  Name one agency that is no longer.  You confuse "drew from..." to mean something else.  It is additional government.  Everyone that fills a slot there has to be replaced somewhere else.

MiniD


Sorry, don't understand what you are saying.

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4287
For the People By The People...Yeah, Right!!
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2003, 04:55:51 PM »
MiniD is saying that the Dept of Homeland Security is an entirely new agency in addition to the previous agencies.

CIA, FBI, Border Patrol, Coast Guard, et al did NOT combine in any way. None of the armed forces are combined, yet they are all under command of the DoD.

It's a new Dept which created a new job position to lead it, which is Tom Ridge's new position.

It did not combine the agencies, it created a new agency which had to be filled with employees which came from various government agencies across the nation. The job positions left vacant in those individual agencies had to in turn be filled by other people.

In the end, it added to the government- it did not streamline it or make it more efficient... which in itself is redundant since our government rarely, if ever, becomes smaller or more efficient.
-SW

Offline funkedup

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9466
      • http://www.raf303.org/
For the People By The People...Yeah, Right!!
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2003, 05:01:01 PM »
Macroeconomics for Dummies Page 1:
Most direct way for the government to stimulate the economy during recession is deficit spending.  

Elected officials know that "It's the economy, stupid." so during a recession they will use all available tools to get short term economic improvements regardless of their alleged ideology.

If you really want to move away from our current socialist system, vote Libertarian in 2004.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2003, 05:06:41 PM by funkedup »

Offline Yeager

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10169
For the People By The People...Yeah, Right!!
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2003, 05:05:45 PM »
I was at the pike place market yesterday.  Had my kids with me.  Got to see some drug deals go down.

Wife asked me not to bring my pistol.  I wasnt feeling real secure thats for sure.  Long live liberalism and the rights of those afflicted.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline lord dolf vader

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1528
For the People By The People...Yeah, Right!!
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2003, 05:51:12 PM »
hope you shoot your self in the ass.

Offline Mini D

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6897
      • Fat Drunk Bastards
For the People By The People...Yeah, Right!!
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2003, 06:25:59 PM »
Funked... deficit spending needs to be increased in a recession (and has been), but I seriously doubt you'll find that spending more money on a new agency is going to accomplish that goal.  Almost every time it has helped, the money has been going into U.S. betterment projects such as highways or parks.  Not in making the F.B.I. bigger.  

MiniD

Offline Mini D

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6897
      • Fat Drunk Bastards
For the People By The People...Yeah, Right!!
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2003, 06:27:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lord dolf vader
hope you shoot your self in the ass.
Hmmm... thought HT specifically said that its not a good idea to be wishing harm on people.  Kinda curious as to why you'd even say this other than to provoke someone.  Either that, or you are simply a sick and twisted ****.

MiniD