Author Topic: Would you send money to something called "Eurocontrol"  (Read 726 times)

Offline Pongo

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Would you send money to something called "Eurocontrol"
« on: May 05, 2003, 08:32:38 PM »
Banners for AH merchendise on the BBS are missguided.(sold anything?)
Banners for events are probably a good idea.
But
Please increase the subscription rate for AH enough so that I dont have to see banners for Eurocontrol please. Especially that subliminal refresh look of it.

Offline funkedup

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Would you send money to something called "Eurocontrol"
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2003, 09:04:03 PM »
Pongo link to here:  http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/index.php?s=

No banners.  :)

Offline Pongo

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Would you send money to something called "Eurocontrol"
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2003, 10:36:57 PM »
aaaaaarrrrrrrggggggg!
how long has that been around!

Offline Sancho

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Would you send money to something called "Eurocontrol"
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2003, 11:39:01 PM »
there's banners on this board???

Offline Dowding

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Would you send money to something called "Eurocontrol"
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2003, 03:34:06 AM »
That's a recruitment poster for air traffic control in Europe you fool.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Pongo

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Would you send money to something called "Eurocontrol"
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2003, 10:10:26 AM »
so I gathered you ass. who gives a crap.

Offline Dowding

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Would you send money to something called "Eurocontrol"
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2003, 11:17:19 AM »
You started the thread boyo.

You asked if people would send money to Eurocontrol. Which was strange given it's not an advertisement for goods or services. So either you didn't understand it or had come up with a catchy thread title to grab attention... not very far off?
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Urchin

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Would you send money to something called "Eurocontrol"
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2003, 11:36:36 AM »
Oh my god.  I want my $1 back... I thought they gave food to Rwandan refugees or something.  :(

Offline vorticon

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Would you send money to something called "Eurocontrol"
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2003, 11:53:42 AM »
???what banners...i have never seen a single banner on thi board...ever...

Offline Furious

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Would you send money to something called "Eurocontrol"
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2003, 12:44:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by funkedup
Pongo link to here:  http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/index.php?s=

No banners.  :)



SHHHHH!!!.  I thought we all agreed we weren't going to tell the Canadians.

Offline Zanth

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Would you send money to something called "Eurocontrol"
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2003, 12:48:56 PM »
I didn't think anyone browsed the interent without something that killed cookies,advertisements, pop-ups, pop unders and banners anymore.  Sort of like going out into the rain without an umbrella, isn't it?

There are several products, some of which are even free.

Offline Arfann

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Would you send money to something called "Eurocontrol"
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2003, 01:14:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zanth
I didn't think anyone browsed the interent without something that killed cookies,advertisements, pop-ups, pop unders and banners anymore.  Sort of like going out into the rain without an umbrella, isn't it?

There are several products, some of which are even free.


Yeah, I use a free one. Learned about it from a pop-up ;)

Offline MRPLUTO

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Would you send money to something called "Eurocontrol"
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2003, 01:54:48 PM »
I noticed the Eurocontrol ad right away, and thought, "They're advertising in a good space.  I can imagine some pilots here would make good air traffic controllers."

Then again....anyone who has ever, EVER flown a Lancaster on a dive bombing run against a fleet should perhaps consider another line of work.

MRPLUTO VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~ MAG-33

Offline gofaster

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Don't knock the power of a good ATC operator
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2003, 02:21:29 PM »
Cockpit voice recorder transcript of the May 25, 2000 collision between an Air Liberté MD-83 and a Streamline Shorts 330 at Paris-CDG, France.
Details: Accident on 25 May 2000 at Paris Charles de Gaulle (95) to aircraft F-GHED operated by Air Liberté and G-SSWN operated by Streamline Aviation - Report f-ed000525 / Bureau Enquêtes-Accidents (BEA)



Legenda
SSW200- Radio transmission of Streamline
LIB8807 - Radio transmission of Air Liberté
Captain - Voice identified as Air Liberté Captain (left seat)
First Officer - Voice identified as Air Liberté First Officer (right seat)
ATC - Air Traffic Control
(italics) - editorial comments


time source content
00.38:20 SSW200->ATC Ground good evening Streamline 200 November fifty one requesting taxi
00.38:25 Captain Streamline 200 taxi holding point 27
00.38:28 SSW200->ATC Taxi holding point 27 Streamline 200
00.44:24 SSW200->ATC Streamline 200 do you wish an intersection for departure
00.44:27 Captain  intersection 16 yeh
00.44:27 SSW200->ATC Intersection 16 please Streamline 200
00.44:31 ATC->SSW200 Say again please
00.44:33 First Officer  Got it yeh got it
00.44:33 ATC->SSW200 Streamline 200 say again your errh... your intentions
00.44:40 SSW200->ATC Errh, we would like to take intersection 16 for 27. (F/O asks permission to enter runway 27 through taxiway 16)
00.44:43 ATC->SSW200 That's fine so 16 is approved Streamline 200
00.47:10 ATC->LIB8807 Liberté 8807 de Gaulle tower on 119 25 good luck (Tower frequency is 119.25 Mhz)
00.47:15 LIB8807->ATC Yes 119 25 and err thanks a lot
00.47:47 ATC->LIB8807 Liberte 8807 de Gaulle?
00.47:50 LIB8807->ATC Yes hello again sorry sir
00.47:52 ATC->LIB8807 8807 you're welcome err I confirm a departure on Eagle 8 Bravo (Eagle 8 Bravo is the departure procedure for runway 26R)
00.47:57 Captain  8 Bravo that's another thing
00.47:59 LIB8807->ATC on 27 8 Bravo?
00.48:01 ATC->LIB8807 8807 that will be a departure on Eagle 8 Bravo
00.48:09 LIB8807->ATC Err roger 8807
00.48:12 Captain  What's the difference?
00.48:14 LIB8807->ATC Err sorry err we are lined up on 27 here?
00.48:19 ATC->LIB8807 My mistake 8807 it is the 27 and it will be a departure on Eagle 8 Alpha
00.48:23 LIB8807->ATC 8 Alpha okay it's it's no problem
00.48:25 Captain  Yeh yeh
00.48:27 First Officer  So it's 8 Alpha (*)
00.48:27 Captain  It ... it ... it's tough for everyone
00.48:29 ATC->LIB8807 Liberté 8807 report a 737 on short final in sight on 27
00.48:33 LIB8807->ATC We have an aircraft on final and if it's a 737 we we can see it sir
00.48:37 ATC->SSW200 Streamline 200 monitor tower 119 25
00.48:38 ATC->LIB8807 Liberté 8807 behind the traffic on short final to 27 you line up behind and wait
00.48:41 SSW200->ATC 119 25 Streamline 200
00.48:42 LIB8807->ATC After the traffic on final if it's a 37 we line up and hold position runway 27 Liberté 8807
00.48:54 Captain  Cabin crew take-off in two minutes
00.49:02 Captain  Go ahead take-off
00.49:03 First Officer  If it's a 37 before checklist
00.49:15 First Officer  (*) where were we before
00.49:20 First Officer  before take-off engine ignition
00.49:23 Captain  On err 'off' on 'on' sorry ha
00.49:28 First Officer  Annunciator panels
00.49:30 Captain  Checked
00.49:31 Captain  Beacons
00.49:32 First Officer  On
00.49:32 Captain  You also have to watch the stops here as well cause you go by some you think there's one further down because you're quite a way from the runway I mean you end up the wrong side of the stops
00.49:33 First Officer  Radar
00.49:33 Captain  On
00.49:34 First Officer  Brake temperature
00.49:36 Captain  err... 50
00.49:39 First Officer  60 passenger announcements (*) that would be (*) 1500 and a bit
00.49:40 First Officer  Yah
00.49:42 Captain  That's done we are on auto ... we're cleared to line up eh
00.49:45 First Officer  And we hold position
00.49:46 Captain  Err ah yes okay
00.49:47 First Officer  Yes we hold
00.49:51 First Officer  So you see it's not in the check list that when you are taxiing eh the RAT
00.49:55 Captain  No
00.49:56 First Officer  There's nothing eh if you don't see like
00.49:57 Captain  We shouldn't depart we've only seen it in the air eh
00.50:00 Captain  That's on standby (on that side)
00.50:04 Captain  Okay? When we're in the air there's no more MEL eh
00.50:12 First Officer  For the return
00.50:12 Captain  Eh?
00.50:13 First Officer  For the return
00.50:15 Captain  Ah you want... you who wanted to do some raw data you'll get your way
00.50:19 (laughing)
00.50:21 First Officer  And we're on it overall eh
00.50:23 Captain  You can
00.50:28 Captain  take-off
00.50:30 First Officer  the NAV
00.50:31 Captain  Nav
00.50:35 First Officer  Checking centre line
00.50:35 Captain  140 armed...
00.50:35 Captain  Sitting on the runway
00.50:36 First Officer  That's the runway up there is it
00.50:38 Captain  Yeh
00.50:38 Captain  ... and take-off the check list is completed
00.50:39 Captain  I thought he just landed (referring to the Boeing 737 that has just landed)
00.50:41 First Officer  Check list complete
00.50:42 First Officer  Yeeh
00.50:44 Captain  So there are...
00.50:45 First Officer  (*) 375
00.50:46 Captain  We're in manual eh 98
00.50:48 First Officer  56
00.50:49 ATC->LIB8807 Liberté 8807 cleared for take-off 27, 230 10-15 knots (wind 230 degrees, windspeed 10 to 15 knots)
00.50:53 LIB8807->ATC Taking off on 27 Liberté 8807
00.50:57 ATC->SSW200 Streamline 200 line up runway 27 and wait number 2
00.50:58 Captain  Are you ready.. are you ready?
00.51:01 First Officer  I'm ready
00.51:01 SSW200->ATC Line up runway 27 and wait Streamline 200
00.51:07 First Officer  OK
00.51:11 Captain  Where's the number one is he the number one (asks if the Boeing 737 that has just landed was meant to be number 1)
00.51:18 Captain  Are all the windows closed?
00.51:19 Captain  OK I'll go below the line with the checks (*)(they start to taxy past the stop towards the runway)
00.51:22 First Officer  Going below the line then uh transponder
00.51:24 First Officer  Coming on
00.51:27 First Officer  Top
00.51:29 First Officer  Landing lights strobes
00.51:32 First Officer  Landing lights and strobes on
00.51:35 First Officer  Flying controls well CWP's clear
00.51:39 Captain  Yeh right it's not actually 'cos you've stil got the controls in sir
00.51:41 Captain  Yeh uh ha yeh
 First Officer  Yeh past that so it's controls (but) fuel
 Captain  OK
00.51:45 Captain  Can you see anything down there
00.51:45 First Officer  100 knots
00.51:45 Captain  Top 100 knots
00.51:47 Captain  Checked
00.51:47 First Officer  No I can't
00.51:51 First Officer  Unless there's one coming out in front
00.51:53 Captain  How about now (he wants to enter the runway)
00.51:57 First Officer  V one (take off decision speed)
00.51:59 First Officer  V R (rotation speed)
00.52:00 Captain  Oh ****
00.52:01 First Officer  Oh ****
00.52:01 First Officer  ****
00.52:02 COLLISION  
00.52:07 Synthetic Voice Speed brake speed brake speed brake
00.52:22 LIB8807->ATC Ground from Liberté 8807 we have just hit another aircraft on taxi... on take-off.
00.52:29 ATC->LIB8807 Confirm that you have hit an aircraft Liberté 8807
00.52:32 LIB8807->ATC Affirmative
00.52:34 Captain  An STOL
00.52:34 ATC->LIB8807 8807, copy. Do you want the emergency services?
00.52:37 Captain  Yes... we're going to vacate at the next eh
00.52:39 LIB8807->ATC Yes... we're going to vacate
00.52:42 ATC->LIB8807 8807 do you have any damage?
00.52:44 Captain  Ah yes eh eh
00.52:44 LIB8807->ATC Certainly on the wing sir yes
00.52:46 ATC->LIB8807 Can you still taxi?
00.52:47 LIB8807->ATC We're going to taxi sir... we're vacating ... we're alerting our cabin crew
00.52:51 ATC->LIB8807 8807 you can vacate at the end.
00.52:55 LIB8807->ATC Vacating at the end and it was a Short sir
00.52:57 Captain  A Short eh
00.52:58 LIB8807->ATC Which came onto the runway
00.53:01 ATC->LIB8807 Roger
00.53:05 First Officer  Will you make the announcement?

Offline gofaster

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Re: Don't knock the power of a good ATC operator
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2003, 02:22:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by gofaster
Cockpit voice recorder transcript of the May 25, 2000 collision between an Air Liberté MD-83 and a Streamline Shorts 330 at Paris-CDG, France.
Details: Accident on 25 May 2000 at Paris Charles de Gaulle (95) to aircraft F-GHED operated by Air Liberté and G-SSWN operated by Streamline Aviation - Report f-ed000525 / Bureau Enquêtes-Accidents (BEA)




Remarks:
Shorts 330 G-SSWN was operating on a mailflight (Streamline 200) to Luton. The crew were cleared to depart cargo stand N51 and proceed to runway 27 at 02.38h. Around the same time Air Liberté Flight 8807 (an MD-83, F-GHED) also taxied to runway 27 for a flight to Madrid. At 02.44h the Charles de Gaulle ground controller asked Streamline 200 if they wished to enter runway 27 at an intermediate taxiway; the crew asked for and were granted to enter Taxiway 16. At 02.50:49h the tower controller cleared the MD-83 for takeoff: "Liberté 8807, autorisé au décollage 27, 230 , 10 à 15 kts.". The controller then immediately told the Shorts to line up and wait: "Stream Line two hundred line up runway 27 and wait, number two". As the MD-83 was travelling down the runway, the Shorts started to taxi onto the runway. At a speed of about 155kts the left wing of MD-83 slashed through the cockpit of the Shorts plane; the MD-83 abandoned takeoff.

PROBABLE CAUSE: The accident was caused:
- Firstly, by the LOC controller's erroneous perception of the position of the aircraft, this being reinforced by the context and the working methods, which led him to clear the Shorts to line up,
- Secondly, by the inadequacy of systematic verification procedures in ATC which made it impossible for the error to be corrected,
- Finally, by the Shorts' crew not dispelling any doubts they had as to the position of the 'number one' aircraft before entering the runway.

Contributory factors include:
- Light pollution in the area of runway 27, which made a direct view difficult for the LOC controller.
- Difficulty for the LOC controller in accessing radar information: the ASTRE image was difficult to read and the AVISO image not displayed at his control position.
- The use of two languages for radio communications, which meant that the Shorts crew were not conscious that the MD 83 was going to take off.
- The angle between access taxiway 16 and the runway which made it impossible for the Shorts crew to perform a visual check before entering the runway.
- The lack of co-ordination between the SOL and LOC controllers when managing the Shorts, exacerbated by the presence of a third party whose role was not defined.
- A feedback system which was recent and still underdeveloped.