Author Topic: To those seeking "Realism"  (Read 397 times)

Offline BigBen

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To those seeking "Realism"
« on: October 23, 2000, 06:29:00 PM »
To those of us who have decried the "unbalancing" impact of the Ostwind, N1K2, CHOG, G10, 190, SpitIX, StratoFort laser-guided bombing, and most other planes at one time or another...

AH is a fantastic sim, given the scope of what it is attempting to model.  Sure, there may be some idiosyncracies here and there and minor problems that need to be (and likely will be) addressed.  AH is still growing, as are we pilots, and the development team grows with us.

But consider for a moment the typical pilot of these splendid simulated machines.

How many of you firewall the throttle and keep it there until you dive in on your prey?

If Hitech or Superfly could snap their fingers and make everything 100% realistic, I'm will to bet that 90% of AH pilots would be swimming with the sheep before reaching 10K'on their first sortie of the evening.

90% of you... I include myself in this number... maybe even 95% or 99%... firewall the throttle at takeoff.  We climb to 10 or 15 or 20 thousand feet and accelerate to max level speed at well above redline MP and prop RPM on our way to the fight.  MAYBE we occasionally increase the prop pitch to shift into overdrive and save fuel.  I usually do power back a bit at cruise.

I remember watching an F4U training film once.  The F4U used some incredibly low power setting at cruise, like 25" MP and 1200 RPM.  CHOG is my ride, so I better watch the film again and check.    But my point is this.  We fly these birds, however well modelled, well above their normal capability.  For the most part, we pilots are uber, not the planes.

The fact is, you simply CAN'T run a turbocharged engine at full MP anywhere within 2 or 3 miles of sea level for an extended period, especially when leaned for best power (which AH does automatically or not at all) without leaving cylinders as souvenirs for the children watching the dogfights from below.  CHT and EGT (cylinder head temp and exhaust gas temp) climb far too high too fast and stress critical engine components.  You literally burn up the engine from the inside out until metal melts or cracks under the stress and things go BOOM and stop in a hurry.

We all want realism, to one degree or another. I certainly do.  But let's not put the entire burden on HTC.  We make these planes do things they were never designed to do anyway.

Of course, it would sure be boring to cruise around at 150 KIAS in my C-HOG.  

Frankly,I wouldn't mind seeing at least a slightly more dynamic modeling of engines and power settings.  We really should be able to at least overheat and damage the engine if we climb for too long at full power and low airpseed.  

Just my $.02.  Nothing earth shaking at all!

PS if you want to see how these planes were REALY flown, you can watch WWII training videos on line at www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com
Great stuff, I higly recommend them.    American planes only though.

BigBen



[This message has been edited by BigBen (edited 10-23-2000).]

Offline Ketil

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To those seeking "Realism"
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2000, 07:13:00 PM »
Ben, thanks for the link, Zeno's site rocks !  Very nice stuff.
Ket

Offline Westy

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To those seeking "Realism"
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2000, 08:37:00 PM »
 Good points BigBen.  I do wish they would include overheating if at 100% power too long.

 I was watching the F6F video from Zeno's this afternoon. Hope more folks get a chance to!  

-Westy

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2000, 08:51:00 PM »
Hi

Zenos is a cool site I wonder if there are simmilar training films for non US planes out there for him to post. I agree 100% with you, some form of engine overheat modeling or something of the sort must be modeled, tho ill bet that German and Japanese planes will get an arbitrarely lower level of full power runs.  

thanks GRUNHERZ

LJK_Reschke

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To those seeking "Realism"
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2000, 10:44:00 PM »
I would have to agree with you BigBen.  The majority of people "firewall" the throttle on take off and wonder why they have such horrendous torque roll on take off.  I had that problem at first in here but that was way back in EARLY BETA and took some getting used to the different power settings and prop settings.  Now I say BRING IT ON HTC!

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Offline Maniac

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To those seeking "Realism"
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2000, 02:23:00 AM »
But But But, HT has flown an P51 in real life <G,D,R>



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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
Warbirds handle : nr-1 //// -nr-1- //// Maniac

Offline flakbait

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To those seeking "Realism"
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2000, 05:45:00 AM »
I floor it, and leave it there, from takeoff to where ever. I kill power on landing. If a fight is a long ways off, I'll cut back to cruise settings and leave it be. About 5 minutes out, I'll floor it again and maybe punch WEP is the fight is coming my way.




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Flakbait
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"My art is the wings of an aircraft through the skies, my music the deep hum of a prop as it slices the air, my thrill the thunder of guns tearing asunder an enemy plane."
Flakbait
19 September 2000

Offline delta

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To those seeking "Realism"
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2000, 09:15:00 AM »
For what it's worth...


I would like to see increasing temperature when engines are held at high MP numbers and rpm.

delta

Offline BigBen

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« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2000, 11:17:00 AM »
Overheating w/ consequences (not just a WEP shutdown) would be a great addition- it would add strategy to the enroute portion of flying and also to extended combat operations.  It would also be great if someone could compile a list of specs for for proper power settings and power management.  Here's an example I found  at Zeno's (and for proper credit - www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com  is the source and a GREAT SITE!   )

 

BB

Offline BigBen

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To those seeking "Realism"
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2000, 11:18:00 AM »
There are also some performance charts on the site... I'm going to try to validate some of them later this evening.  Unless someone beats me to it, I'll report back my findings.

lazs

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To those seeking "Realism"
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2000, 11:35:00 AM »
ben, those are recomended settings.   PW R2800 engines have been tested at full MP for hours at sea level.   Overheating can occur and any use of wep or full throttle shortens time to overhaul but allmost any WWII engine could run 100% throttle for 20 min to an hour with a pretty fair chance of surviving.   It certainly was not the best thing to do in a real war but it was possible.   The arena with it's 10 minute sorties is the reason full throttle is no big deal IMO.
lazs

Offline BigBen

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To those seeking "Realism"
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2000, 06:19:00 PM »
Lazs,
I don't for a moment doubt what you are saying, but my point is just that people ought to keep in mind that while many are demanding realism and complaining about the slightest deviation, individual pilot technique tends to be least realistic of all.  But it's all for fun and we enjoy it, so who cares?  Even so, I think I'll try flying by the book for a couple of hours and see how I do against the uber-pilots.  Just for laughs.

Later that night....

Knit A: "hey, who's that low slow C-HOG?"
Lo Slo C-hog: "BigBen of the MOL"
Knits A,B,C, and D: "Let's bounce him!"
 
BB

Offline SKurj

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« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2000, 09:36:00 PM »
The skills required to fly AH are slowly being dumbed down...
Remember the weak gear on AC in beta for example.  Combat trim...  
Need I say more +)

SKurj

lazs

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To those seeking "Realism"
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2000, 11:46:00 AM »
Yep ben.. you could but without 7 hour sorties it just doesn't make much difference.  You will read lots of accounts of pilots running full throttle with no oil pressure or running wep till all the water was gone (10 min or so).   These planes had to be thouroghly checked after such activities.   Some had wire seals on the throttle that broke when wep was applied so that mechanics new the engine had been run hard.

I have an account of a Hog running for 20 min with no oil pressure, landing on an emergency strip, seabees fixing the holed oil tank and refilling with oil and him taking back off again.   Numerous accounts of radials coming home with 1 or more cylinders shot clear off (not fuel injected radials).
lazs

Offline Ripsnort

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To those seeking "Realism"
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2000, 11:53:00 AM »
IMO, I think the FM was dumbed down to attract the WB groups over here to AH, strictly my opinion, and I'm entitled to my own opinion.  Flame away.

<Don's blow torch goggles>