Cheap Tacky Trashy Oh boy

[SELECTOR]

whats with the ATC tacky banner above....
things are really going down hill i feel..
dont mind ads as long as i cant see them:D

[Jackal1]

Looks like a good way to pick up spare change for the liquer bill to me.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by SELECTOR
whats with the ATC tacky banner above....
things are really going down hill i feel..
dont mind ads as long as i cant see them:D

Guess HTC can't make money how and if they so choose. Didn't know that our $14.95 gave us an automatic appointment to the HTC Board of Directors.

Maybe HTC could supplement their removal of the banner by adding the lost income to your monthly bill.

This is an indication of a company going "downhill" .... hmmmmmm

[gofaster]

"Tower 214, this is Yak9U inbound Angels 10 requesting clearance to land, over."

"Yak9U, Tower. Clear to enter pattern."

"Tower 214, Yak9U. Thank you sir."

...

"Tower 214, Yak9U declaring in-flight emergency. Request immediate clearance to land."

"Yak9U, Tower 214. What is the nature of your emergency?"

"Tower 214, Yak9U. Smoke in the cockpit.  Punctured radiator. Engine failure."

"Yak9U, Tower 214. Cleared to land runway 270 or best available.  All runways clear. Rolling emergency vehicles now."

"Tower 214, Yak9U. Roger, I'm landing deadstick and coming in hot!"

"Tower 214, Yak9U. Runway in sight.  Airspeed hot, flaps inoperative, taking evasives."

"Tower 214, Yak9U. Flaps down, gear down."



End of transmission.

[Pongo]

Originally posted by SlapShot
Guess HTC can't make money how and if they so choose. Didn't know that our $14.95 gave us an automatic appointment to the HTC Board of Directors.

Maybe HTC could supplement their removal of the banner by adding the lost income to your monthly bill.

This is an indication of a company going "downhill" .... hmmmmmm

Why dont you just go down on em and get it over with.

[gofaster]

I thought I'd post this transcript of the CVR recording for Eastern Airlines Flight 401 inbound to Miami on the night of December 29, 1972.  When I was younger I read a book called "The Ghost of Flight 401" which went into some detail about the crash and its aftermath, including rumours about a ghost of one of the officers haunting Eastern aircraft.  The book really creeped me out.

As a result of the crash, Lockheed took numerous steps to improve aircraft safety, such as changing the cockpit instrumentation and redesigning passenger cabin entry/exit hatches.  As you read this, it should be apparent what caused the crash.  The left wingtip impacted first, carving a deep gouge in the swamp, then the plane righted itself momentarily before plowing into trees. If you've seen footage of the ValuJet crash of a few years ago, you'll have a pretty good idea of the type of terrain the rescuers and investigators had to deal with after the accident.

WARNING: This is an actual transcript of real events of an airline disaster and reader sensitivity is advised.

TWR - Tower Control
CAM = Cockpit Area Mike
RDO = Radio transmission
-1 = captain
-2 = first officer
-3 = 2nd officer
# = foul language


23.32:35 RDO-1 Miami Tower, Eastern 401 just turned on final
23.32:45 TWR Who else called?
23.32:48 CAM-1 Go ahead and throw 'em out
23.32:52 RDO-1 Miami Tower, do you read, Eastern 401? Just turned on final
23.32:56 TWR Eastern 401 Heavy, continue approach to 9 left
23.33:00 RDO-1 Coninue approach, roger
23.33:00 CAM-3 Continuous ignition. No smoke
  CAM-1 Coming on
  CAM-3 Brake system
  CAM-1 Okay
  CAM-3 Radar
  CAM-1 Up, off
  CAM-3 Hydraulic panels checked
  CAM-2 Thirty-five, thirty three
  CAM-1 Bert, is that handle in?
  CAM-? * * *
  CAM-3 Engine crossbleeds are open
23.33:22 CAM-? Gear down
  CAM-? * * *
  CAM-1  I gotta
  CAM-? .....
23.33:25 CAM-1 I gotta raise it back up
23.33:47 CAM-1 Now I'm gonna try it down one more time
  CAM-2 All right  
23.33:58 CAM [sound of altitude alert horn]  
  CAM-2 (Right) gear.  
  CAM-2 Well, want to tell 'em we'll take it around and circle around and # around?
23.34:05 RDO-1 Well ah, tower, this is Eastern, ah, 401. It looks like we're gonna have to circle, we don't have a light on our nose gear yet
23.34:14 TWR Eastern 401 heavy, roger, pull up, climb straight ahead to two thousand, go back to approach control, one twenty eight six
23.34:19 CAM-2 Twenty-two degrees.  
  CAM-2 Twenty-two degrees, gear up
  CAM-1 Put power on it first, Bert. Thata boy.  
  CAM-1 Leave the # # gear down till we find out what we got
  CAM-2 Allright
  CAM-3 You want me to test the lights or not?
  CAM-1 Yeah.
  CAM-? * * seat back
  CAM-1 Check it
  CAM-2 Uh, Bob, it might be the light. Could you jiggle tha, the light?
  CAM-3 It's gotta, gotta come out a little bit and then snap in
  CAM-? * *  
  CAM-? I'll put 'em on
23.34:21 RDO-1 Okay, going up to two thousand, one twenty-eight six
23.34:58 CAM-2 We're up to two thousand
  CAM-2 You want me to fly it, Bob?
  CAM-1 What frequency did he want us on, Bert?
  CAM-2 One twenty-eight six
  CAM-1 I'll talk to 'em
  CAM-3 It''s right ...........
  CAM-1 Yeah, ............
  CAM-3 I can't make it pull out, either
  CAM-1 We got pressure
  CAM-3 Yes sir, all systems
  CAM-1 # #
23.35:09 RDO-1 All right ahh, Approach Control, Eastern 401, we're right over the airport here and climbing to two thousand feet. in fact, we've just  
23.35:20 APP Eastern 401, roger. Turn left heading three six zero and maintain two thousand, vectors to 9 Left final
23.35:28 RDO-1 Left three six zero
23.36:04 CAM-1 Put the ... on autopilot here
  CAM-2 Allright
  CAM-1 See if you can get that light out
  CAM-2 Allright
  CAM-1 Now push the switches just a ... forward.  
  CAM-1 Okay.  
  CAM-1 You got it sideways, then.  
  CAM-? Naw, I don't think it'll fit.  
  CAM-1 You gotta turn it one quarter turn to the left.
23.36:27 APP Eastern 401, turn left heading three zero zero
  RDO-1 Okay.  
23.36:37 RDO-1 Three zero zero, Eastern 401
23.37:08 CAM-1 Hey, hey, get down there and see if that damn nose wheel's down. You better do that.
  CAM-2 You got a handkerchief or something so I can get a little better grip on this? Anything I can do with it?
  CAM-1 Get down there and see if that, see if that # thing ...
  CAM-2 This won't come out, Bob. If I had a pair of pliers, I could cushion it with that Kleenex
  CAM-3 I can give you pliers but if you force it, you'll break it, just believe me
  CAM-2 Yeah, I'll cushion it with Kleenex
  CAM-3 Oh, we can give you pliers
23.37:48 APP Eastern, uh, 401 turn left heading two seven zero
23.37:53 RDO-1 Left two seven zero, roger
23.38:34 CAM-1 To # with it, to # with this. Go down ans see if it's lined up with the red line. That's all we care. # around with that # twenty-cent piec
  CAM * * *
23.38:46 RDO-1 Eastern 401 'll go ah, out west just a little further if we can here and, ah, see if we can get this light to come on here
23.38:54 APP Allright, ah, we got you headed westbound there now, Eastern 401
23.38:56 RDO-1 Allright
  CAM-1 How much fuel we got left on this # # # #
  CAM-? Fifty two five
  CAM-2 (It won't come out) no way
23.39:37 CAM-1 Did you ever take it out of there?
  CAM-2 Huh?
  CAM-1 Have you evre taken it out of there?
  CAM-2 Hadn't till now
  CAM-1 Put it in the wrong way, huh?
  CAM-2 In there looks * square to me
  CAM-? Can't you get the hole lined up?
  CAM-? * * *
  CAM-? Whatever's wrong?
  CAM-1 (What's that?)
23.40:05 CAM-2 I think that's over the training field
  CAM-? West heading you wanna go left or *
  CAM-2 Naw that's right, we're about to cross Krome Avenue right now
23.40:17 CAM [Sound of click]
  CAM-2 I don't know what the # holding that # # # # in
  CAM-2 Always something, we coulda make schedule
23.40:38 CAM [Sound of altitude alert]
  CAM-1 We can tell if that # # # # is down by looking down at our indices
  CAM-1 I'm sure it's down, there's no way it couldnt help but be
  CAM-2 I'm sure it is
  CAM-1 It freefalls down
  CAM-2 The tests didn't show that the lights worked anyway
  CAM-1 That 's right
  CAM-2 It's a faulty light
23.41:05 CAM-2 Bob, this # # # # just won't come out
  CAM-1 Allright leave it there
  CAM-3  I don't see it down there
  CAM-1 Huh?
  CAM-3 I don't see it
  CAM-1 You can't see that indis ... for the nosewheel ah, there's a place in there you can look and see if they're lined up
  CAM-3 I know, a little like a telescope
  CAM-1 Yeah
  CAM-3 Well...
  CAM-1 It's not lined up?
  CAM-3  I can't see it, it's pitch dark and I throw the little light I get ah nothing
23.41:31 CAM-4 Wheel-well lights on?
  CAM-3 Pardon?
  CAM-4 Wheel-well lights on?
  CAM-3 Yeah wheel well lights always on if the gear's down
  CAM-1 Now try it
23.41:40 APP Eastern, ah 401 how are things comin' along out there?
23.41:44 RDO-1 Okay, we'd like to turn around and come, come back in
  CAM-1 Clear on left?
  CAM-2 Okay
23.41:47 APP Eastern 401 turn left heading one eight zero
23.41:50 CAM-1 Huh?
23.41:51 RDO-1 One eighty
23.42:05 CAM-2 We did something to the altitude
  CAM-1 What?
23.42:07 CAM-2 We're still at two thousand right?
23.42:09 CAM-1 Hey, what's happening here?
  CAM [Sound of click]
23.42:10 CAM [Sound of six beeps similar to radio altimeter increasing in rate]
23.42:12   [Sound of impact]

[JB73]

Originally posted by gofaster
As you read this, it should be apparent what caused the crash....  

Maybe im just stoopid as far as "Real" flying lingo goes. i dont understand a dmn thing in that whole transcript.... well maybe a tiny bit. tell me if i got it right:

there is some type of switch broken in the cockpit that turns on lights somewhere. what the lights do i have no idea. they cant get it to work. while messing with it they got lower than they thought. the turn stalled them out and crashed.

is that close to correct?

[gofaster]

Pretty much.

On approach they attempted to lower their landing gear, but the indicator light for the nose wheel didn't light up.  The crew figured one or both of two possibilities must've occurred: Either the gear didn't go down or the light was busted.  So, the captain had the copilot fiddle with the light (that's the conversation about the pliers being padded by Kleenex so that it wouldn't break the light) while the other officer used the telescope to check the alignment of the indices for the nose gear.

They cruised west of the airport to make their repairs.  While they were focused on the landing gear situation, they lost track of their altitude (probably thinking it was stable, when in actuality they had begun a slight descent).  They also failed to hear the altitude alert warning tone because they were preoccupied with the gear situation.  When they went to make their left turn, they dug a wingtip into the dirt, tried to correct, but didn't have the airspeed to climb above the cypress trees in front of them.  Impact.

[bockko]

"Yak9U, Tower 214. Cleared to land runway 270 or best available. All runways clear. Rolling emergency vehicles now."

I would add this: "and you've got 3 51's vulching, a flight of lanc's inbound at 17k, a flak next to the eastern gv hangar, 2 m3's at the end of runway 180 spraying inbounders, and you've got friendly traffic upping on all runways. Cleared to land"

[Zippatuh]

try surfing to

http://216.91.192.19/forums/index.php?s=

No banners.

[JB73]

there's a little periscope in the cockpit to look @ the gear??? never heard that 1 before.

point of the story.. was their gear down? could they have landed at all? if that nose gear was not down they would have meet just as horrible an end methinks

oh well TY for the explanation

[gofaster]

Originally posted by JB73
there's a little periscope in the cockpit to look @ the gear??? never heard that 1 before.

point of the story.. was their gear down? could they have landed at all? if that nose gear was not down they would have meet just as horrible an end methinks

oh well TY for the explanation

The way I understood it, the officer opened a panel in the floor of the cabin, climbed down a little ladder into the compartment under the cockpit, and peered through a scope in the landing gear housing, hence the reference to throwing a light and still not being able to see the indices, and the follow-on questions about whether the gear lights were on or not.  The officer was in the nose of the plane, standing over the gear housing, when the jet hit the trees.  He was considered to be the first casualty.

I can't remember if the investigation revealed if the nose gear was down or not.  I'm guessing it was, if it free fell into place like the captain mentions in the transcript.

[JB73]

that little room sounds a bit like something in the movie "executive desicion" LOL

[cpxxx]

JB73, No a nose gear failure while risky is far less dangerous than flying into the ground at several hundred knots. In fact the subsequent landing without a nosewheel makes for great TV.

Actually the lesson learned from this tragedy means a similar incident is unlikely to happen again. Basically no one was flying the aircraft as all three of the crew were preoccupied with the gear indication problem. These days crews are trained to ensure at least one pilot remains at the controls during any emergency situation.  Some manuals now have a large admonition on the emergency check list page: FLY THE AIRPLANE!

Every major accident has lessons which are read and digested by pilots who read all accident reports avidly, not for ghoulish reasons. But to avoid making the same mistake themselves.

JB73 my girlfriend would sympathise with your problems in understanding real 'pilot lingo'. She wondered about the weather one day and my reply was along the lines of:
EIDW 070830Z 15012kt 9999 FEW020 SCT200 11/07 Q022 NOSIG.
She told me she'd get the weather off the TV next time.