How to Stop Buff Alt Monkeys & Make Bombing a Bit More Realistic

[MRPLUTO]

qts,

Everything you say is quite correct, although an underlying assumption maybe not always be:  that people are playing just to get perks. [ I have over 3,000 buff perks, with nothing to use them on to speak of.  Perhaps someday a B-29.]  

So I look at the strategic situation and hit several strategic targets in one run.  By using good planing and tactics along with good gunning I often make it back with all 3 planes and get a kill or two.  For the record, I get between 14 and 18 perks for such missions, usually flying B-17s or Ki-67s.  I fly the 17s at 22-25K and the 67s at 20K.



 MRPLUTO

[qts]

Hmmm... I could have put it better. Perks lead to rank, and rank is what matters in the AH competitions and for other things e.g. controlling carriers. Also, not all of us are as skilled as you (look at my stats, for one) and earning perks to fly - and likely lose - the occasional special plane is important.

[MRPLUTO]

qts,

"I feel your pain", is what I should say to be polite.  But in fact, I don't.     Seriously,  this is one of those rare situations where we can actually say, "Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree." [ I hate that; it's such a cop out.]  But in this case our goals/interests seem to be very different.  There's no accouting for taste; it's subjective.  I fly in events & scenarios, but not in competitions.  I took over an "unmanned" CV one time, turning it seconds before a string of bombs dropped astern.

I guess because I can fly or drive a perk vehicle anytime I want to, I guess it doesn't mean much to me.  It's no longer a special treat.  

Your points are well made.

MRPLUTO

[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by MRPLUTO
Since bombers in real life couldn't hit much of anything from above 30k, why not have a second wind layer at 30K moving in a direction different from the lower layer.  Anyone bombing from above 30K would be adjusting only for the wind layer they are flying in.  When the bombs hit the lower wind layer they would begin to be blown off course.


MRPLUTO VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~ MAG-33

How many bombers have you seen fly over 30000ft lately.  I havnt  seen any.  I rarely see any above 20k.  I fly buffs 90% of
the time and I grab alt after my drop only to have a better chance against the mass of late war fighters that I am going to have to
battle.  I dont see the 'alt monky buff ' thing as a problem.

[Revvin]

As a bomber pilot and CO of a squad that does not fly it's bombers over historical operating altitudes it used to bother me to see players exploiting this ability and flying 35k+ but with all the whining that's gone on about bombers and strat ruining people's fun I don't really care anymore, infact WTG! the whiners have their Me163's which are far too lowly perked and on top of that you have the 262's and La7's to contend with. Those players that did complain about the above points are now reaping what they sowed.

[BigGun]

Originally posted by MRPLUTO
It does take a long time to climb to 30K+, but I assume these people do what I do when I climb to 25K; we eat a snack, take a quick shower; make phone calls.  Don't laugh...I've heard other buff pilots do this, too!
MRPLUTO

Ironic how you are using a realism arguement for a preceived problem then you state this is how you fly. I am sure that is how buff pilots flew in wwii. Auto-climb, dinner, movie, shower, make a few phone calls.

Seems you only want "realism" when it fits your needs or "your" preceived problems. I don't see many buffs at 30+k, but then again I can't say I fly that high. No problem in my perception. Now ssssshhhhh...i gotta run answer that phone in the shower.

[bj229r]

It's so fediddlein hard to hit Fh's just UNDER the wind layer...I would never piss away the time again to grab that extra 10k...likely make it to target and back, but hittin things such as FH.s..(and not girly targets like cities and depots)...if it can consistently be done above wind layer..more power to ya

(Mrpluto..looked at your buff score..DAMNED impressive..WHAT exactly do you bomb...are ya sayin ya are hittin HANGARS at 25k..and landing ALL your missions? I must not be playin this game right..I go over a hot field...15..20..20..30k...the re are HOARDS after me...and the obligatory 30k+ spit after them)

[MRPLUTO]

Hi bj229r,

Thanks for the complement.  Actually, I don't hit hangers...I  almost always hit strategic targets:  fuel refineries, cities, and flak factories are my favorites.

I don't do milk runs.  Many of my missions are attacks deep into enemy territory.  The enemy is slower to react to strategic bombers, so if you go in fast at a decent altitude (20k - 25k) most pilots will only be capable or patient enough to make suicidal dead six attacks.  Well, I'm a really good shot, so they die with surprising rapidity.  If one attacks fields there will be high fighters waiting to jump on any lower enemy, so I avoid fields.

My favorite bomber is the Ki-67 because it's so fast, but like I said above, you have to be an accurate bombardier because of its small bomb load.  Eight 100 kg (220 lb.) bombs are the best loadout.

I don't think hitting hangers is a good strategy or tactic.  But that's another post.



MRPLUTO VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~ MAG-33

[Pongo]

Pluto.
if you dont want people to insult you maybe keep insults out of the titles of your threads. But asside from that. THis is a stupid thread. Your a whiner. Seems to be the majority opinion.
Thread answered.

[bj229r]

Accuracy--I never saw anyone try to define what bombing 'accuracy' is---is 'accuracy', being able to hit a city or dar factory at 25-30k?...that IS easy...even at 30k..provided ya spend lots time lining up, etc. (B17's best cruise alt WAS 30k...typically bombed from 25k, according to most the stuff I ever read--B24 couldnt hit 30k)..or is 'accuracy' bein able to hit hangars, etc? Dont care what anyone says...bomber group rackin up mucho points hittin factories, cities, etc is nice...but has negligable effect on war effort..which is taking bases. (mebbe SEVERAL buff groups hittin ..say... ALL the ammo bases at same time..THAT would do somethin) Accuracy has to be defined as being able to kill hangars...rare that base capture happens before ALL the fh's are plastered..best I can do is kill every other FH I aim at (from 15.5k, UNDER the wind layer...and I been at this from the start....if the buff is at 25k+...ya neednt worry about any kind of pin-salamander bombing at the base ya are defending...mebbe lose a few strats...which means the guy at 25k spent an hour to kill an few acks and a couple gas barrels

[Shiva]

Originally posted by BigGun
Ironic how you are using a realism arguement for a preceived problem then you state this is how you fly. I am sure that is how buff pilots flew in wwii. Auto-climb, dinner, movie, shower, make a few phone calls.

And all buff pilots were alone in their planes, without a copilot to trade off flying duties with, too, and had to wriggle out of their seat and down to the empty bombardier position when it came time to make their bombing run -- and if they hadn't had the foresight to get another person to ride with them to man all the gun positions, would have to dash from gun position to gun position to shoot at attacking fighters.

If you're going to squeak about the ways that flying a buff is 'gamey', BigGuns, squeak about all of them, not just the one that you're bent out of shape about. But while we're on the subject of whining about how a buff driver can put his plane on autopilot and go off and do something else while he climbs, is there anything actually preventing a fighter puke from taking off from a rear field, setting his autopilot on climb, and going off to take a dump, coming back five or ten or fifteen minutes later when his plane's at 30k?

[Revvin]

You mean it's not historically correct that a bomber is defenseless while he's in the bombardier position? Another one of the problems with all the moaning about closer fields is that the same player can make suicidal attacks on bombers knowing he can just keep leap frogging all the way along the buffs course picking fields just ahead and climbing for another suicidal attack until eventually the bombers are dead.

[WhiteHawk]

Amen to that revvin.  I just recenlty killed a guy 4 times in the same b17 hop.  Total of 7 kills, but the guy got #3 and#4 engine and i couldnt clime over the fricken hill to get home.  It was still a blast tho.

[MRPLUTO]

I dont suffer fools gladly, so I'm getting pretty tired of the responses I read.

*******

Your arguments are just rude insults, and/or illogical:

Example: "Because there are other unrealistic aspects of the game, why should we listen to your selfish whine?")

*******

Or they are just plain wrong:

"Seems you only want realism when it fits your needs..." (BigGun)

BigGun, tell me: Are you familiar with my other posts?  Do you know that I often speak out in favor of greater realism, regardless of how it effects me?  Or did you just say that because it sounded good, even though it is a   complete mischaracterization of my opinions?  I resent your charge, so either prove it with quotes from my other posts or retract it.

Also, BigGun:  Although it is unrealistic to take a shower while on auto-pilot,  such behavior doesn't effect game play.  The buff can climb just as high whether the pilot sits in front of his computer during climbout watching TV & drinking a beer.  In fact, there is a risk of an afk kill.    If I climb to 20-25K while afk and then head for enemy airspace, how has my being afk affected the coming engagement?  I'd be at the same alt whether I've showered or not.

*******

Shiva:  You're right it's not realistic to have only one person in a plane.  That's why he can instantly jump from position to position (not "wriggle out of their seat").  That's also why buffs have external views: to simulate the effect of having many sets of eyes watching the sky.

The purpose of these unrealistic abilities is too make the game more realistic.  How ironic, but it works.  In my argument I don't argue for unrealistic abilities,  just realistic limitations to go along with the realistic advantages of flying buffs higher.

Also, for the record:  I have posted about taking away the external view from aircraft like the TBM, A-20 and some others, since they don't have the multiple gun positions and formations like the B-17, Ki-67, and B-26.  Since I like to fly buffs, this suggestion would actually be against my interests.  But I thought I was just a selfish whiner?  BigGun, are you reading this?

*******

Pongo:

Yes, I used a mild insult in the title of my post to get attention.  You use insults as the meat of your argument.  There's a tremendous difference.

At this point you've been reduced to arguing that most of the replies to this post don't support me.  I don't know; I haven't counted them up.  But since people who disagree are more likely to respond than those who agree, I wouldn't be surprised if you're right.  But what counts is not your survey based on a handful of responses, but the quality of the arguments presented, wouldn't you agree?

Also, your tactic of declaring, "Thread answered".....well no.

Neither you, nor anyone else, has answered my central argument:

Why should buff pilots get the advantages of flying at extremely high altitudes without suffering the consequences too?

Can you do it?  Your responses take very little time thought; you can keep throwing them like dirt bombs.  Try writing several well thought-out paragraphs that don't make use of insults.  Again, I ask, "Can you do it?"

 


MRPLUTO

[Revvin]

Originally posted by MRPLUTO
Shiva:  You're right it's not realistic to have only one person in a plane.  That's why he can instantly jump from position to position (not "wriggle out of their seat").  That's also why buffs have external views: to simulate the effect of having many sets of eyes watching the sky.
MRPLUTO

How many times have you set up the bombsight in the external view? by the time one of the late war monsters is within shooting range you can lose the whole tail section of a bomber by the time you jump to the gunner position..and which one do you go to in a B17 for instance? top? belly? tail? nose? by the time you've done that you're already going down.