Most Sweeping Gun Ban Ever Hits Congress

[Dune]

From NRA-ILA

Most Sweeping Gun Ban Ever Hits Congress:
Clinton Ban "Re-enactment" Targets Millions More Guns!!!
As we predicted, the anti-gunners have begun the push to further expand the Clinton gun ban of 1994. Not content with merely re-authorizing the ban, Reps. John Conyers (D-Mich.) and Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.) have drafted legislation that bans millions more guns! It's a giant step closer to the goal stated by Clinton ban sponsor Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), who said on CBS's 60 Minutes: "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in, I would have done it." Toward that goal, Conyers/McCarthy would:

- Ban every gun made to lawfully comply with the Clinton ban. The Clinton ban arbitrarily dictated the kinds of grips, stocks and attachments that new guns could have. Manufacturers complied. New guns were made to conform to the Clinton restrictions. Now prohibitionists want to ban the new guns, too.

- Ban guns the Clinton legislation expressly exempted from prohibition. This includes Ruger Mini-14s, Ranch Rifles, and .30 Caliber Carbines, and entire classes of guns, including fixed magazine rifles, as well as shotguns that hold under five rounds.

- Ban guns widely used for target shooting. It bans the three center-fire rifles most commonly used for marksmanship competitions: the Colt AR-15, the Springfield M1A, and the M1 "Garand."

- Ban all semi-automatic shotguns: Remingtons, Winchesters, Benellis, Berettas, etc., widely used for hunting, trap, skeet, and sporting clays, by banning their receivers (main component).

- Ban guns for defense.

- Bans any semi-automatic rifle or shotgun any U.S. Attorney General one day claims is not "sporting," even though self-defense is a fundamental right and the federal constitution, the constitutions of 44 states, and the laws of all 50 states recognize the right to use guns for defense.

- Ban 68 named guns (Clinton ban named 19 guns); Ban parts used to repair or refurbish guns, including frames or receivers;

- Ban importation of ammunition magazines exempt under Clinton ban; Ban private sales of millions of guns, their frames and receivers, and their parts; Ban semi-automatic rifles under 30" long (useful for home defense); Ban all semi-automatic rifles that can hold more than 10 rounds.

- Ban guns rarely used in crime. State and local law enforcement agency reports have always shown that guns on the Clinton and Conyers/McCarthy ban lists have never been used in more than a small percentage of violent crime. The Congressionally-mandated study of the Clinton law concluded that guns it banned "were never used in more than a fraction of all gun murders." But even if they were, are the rights and liberties of law-abiding citizens to be dictated by the acts of criminals?

- Begin "backdoor" registration. Requires manufacturers of banned guns, frames, receivers, and parts to report the names of their dealers, and requires dealers to report any of those parts they have in stock. The next step is obvious-demanding the names of gun owners who buy those parts.

Please contact your U.S. Representative at (202) 224-3121 or by using the "Write Your Representatives" feature and urge them to oppose any attempt to keep alive the Clinton gun ban.

[Scootter]

Cool




 If this is what they send to W then the whole damn thing will get a VETO and the Klinton ban goes away.

Dumb bellybutton libs deserve it. This will never pass, they are trying to bite off to much.  This will give W a nice reason to kill it, if it even makes it that far. I was worried if they just sent to org. to the Pres he would sign it, but this hehe no way.

[ra]

as well as shotguns that hold under five rounds.

Typo?

[Erlkonig]

It's not going to pass in the House, anyway.

[GtoRA2]

Yeah, no one is trying to take our rights away... no, no one!


It's just NRA propaganda....

Really...



Oh how I hate fienstien...

[GtoRA2]

I join the NRA... I had never before, not agreeing with them 100%

Also (not sure if this is true) but my dad was always worried about the NRA listing members addresses and then having you house broken into for your guns.

I am not worried about that now...

I am going to sign up for it today.

[Eagler]

like to see stats that prove a gun ban reduces gun crime ...

i think its insane to own a ak47 but i think banning them does ZERO to reduce crime

how many gun crimes are commited with legally owned firearms of any kind - how many with illegal ones...

politics - plain and simple for the simple emotional minded dr phil followers type

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Scootter
Dumb bellybutton libs deserve it. This will never pass, they are trying to bite off to much.

You do realize, of course, that the Democrats understand that this bill has no chance of passing.  They'll use its defeat as a campaign point vilifying Republicans for their dangerously pro-gun stance.

I just checked out the most recent (2000) National Election Studies survey to find out respondents' average gun control score.  Out of 1,794 surveyed, the average response fell right at "Make the rules somewhat more difficult" for acquiring guns, and 75% of those who responded fell between "Make the rules much more difficult" and "Keep the rules the same."

In other words, this appears to be a winning issue for Democrats who will use the bill's defeat against Republicans.  Chalk up its introduction to campaign strategy focused on 2004.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[ra]

In other words, this appears to be a winning issue for Democrats who will use the bill's defeat against Republicans. Chalk up its introduction to campaign strategy focused on 2004.

The gun issue has been backfiring for the  Dems for the last few election cycles.  I doubt this scam will help them, either.

[Fishu]

woot. another step closer to fascism.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by ra
The gun issue has been backfiring for the  Dems for the last few election cycles.  I doubt this scam will help them, either.

I doubt the gun issue has done much of anything, pro or con, for Democrats in the last few election cycles.  Simply put, most Americans don't put the same kind of thought and enthusiasm into guns or gun control as those on this board.  Though I don't have a list in front of me, I'd venture that gun control doesn't even rate in the top five or even ten issues over which people cast their votes, either now or in the last few election cycles.

In that context, this strategy appears puzzling since gun control doesn't win elections.  I'm guessing it's part of a broader picture that Democrats plan on painting in 2004.  In other words, pick a bunch of issues where they stand closest to a majority of voters and force the Republicans to vote them down or veto them.  They can then point to the economy and the unwillingness of Republicans to represent the majority of voters on numerous issues as part of a bigger campaign strategy.  In the very least, they're covering the gun control base for 2004 just in case.

That's politics.  Nothing to see here... move along.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Dune]

Dunno about that, I'm seeing many papers saying the opposite:

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/politics/4028435.htm
John Edwards trying to get in touch with rural voters on the issue

http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/features/reader/0,2061,554545,00.html
Article saying gun control is a hotter topic than many believe some areas.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/politics/5839391.htm

Some Democrats move delicately to the right on gun control
By RICK MONTGOMERY
The Kansas City Star

Howard Dean puts it point-blank.

"Sure," said the former Vermont governor, a Democrat running for president. "You can walk into my office with a gun."

Because packing heat is legal in the Green Mountain State, Dean doesn't mind if you carry a gun there -- provided you are not a convict, mentally ill or threatening someone with your weapon. Perhaps no other state in the nation is so lenient when it comes to carrying concealed firearms.

Repeat: Dean is a Democrat, and widely considered a liberal one at that.

But he and a growing number of fellow Democrats believe their party must avoid alienating tens of millions of gun owners -- especially in rural areas and the South -- in order to have a chance to win the White House next year.

[ra]

In the very least, they're covering the gun control base for 2004 just in case.

The gun control bites them on the butt because the pro-gun voters are much more passionate than the pro-maybe-a-little-more-restrictions voters.   Every time the Dems make a move against guns the NRA membership swells.  Dems are probably being advised by their political strategists to stay away from the issue, but the lurch to the left caused by the last elections is having its effect.  The Dems can't shut Conyers up.

ra

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Dune
Dunno about that, I'm seeing many papers saying the opposite

[/B]

Anecdotal evidence rarely proves the point, and journalists especially often miss the mark when it comes to political causes and effects.  But I digress.

John Edwards trying to get in touch with rural voters on the issue

[/B]

I'd say that's a political mistake, especially during a primary.  This is the period where Edwards needs to move to the left, not to the right.  It's one of many mistakes he's made already, and his chances of winning the Democratic nomination are quite slim to none as it is.  What's more, his stance on gun control appears intellectually dishonest given his background as a torts trial lawyer.

Article saying gun control is a hotter topic than many believe some areas.

[/B]

Did you read this one?  It supports the current Democratic strategy on gun control and points out that NRA-endorsed Senate candidates have lost a majority of the races in which they've participated since 2000.  Couple that with the fact that the website centers around gun control policy and of course you're going to find that it overstates the importance of the issue to voters.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/politics/5839391.htm

A lot of quotes in that one from heads of interest groups concerned with gun control or the freedom to own guns, but realize again that they tend to overstate the issue.  One quote from the article that particularly draws a smile from me was this throw away by the author:

"Many political observers -- and certainly the NRA -- credit Democrat Al Gore's narrow defeat in 2000 to pro-gun voters in West Virginia, Tennessee, Montana and other states teeming with hunters."

I've seen numerous analyses of Gore's defeat in 2000, but I can honestly say that I've never, ever heard or read this one.  Again, consider the sources -- the NRA?  Of course they're going to claim credit, but that doesn't make it true.  And political observers?  Who, exactly?  Larry Bartels and John Zaller certainly disagree.  So do Michael Lewis-Beck, Charles Tien, and various other well-respected political scientists who've actually run robust quantitative analyses on the 2000 election.

Don't accept anything at face value, especially from those close to the gun control issue on either side.  The simple fact remains that gun control may motivate a few single issue voters on either side of the political spectrum, but for the vast majority of voters gun control barely registers on the radar screen.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by ra
The gun control bites them on the butt because the pro-gun voters are much more passionate than the pro-maybe-a-little-more-restrictions voters.

[/B]

I'm not sure how you'd quantify that, but they're certainly more vocal.  That doesn't mean they're more passionate.

Every time the Dems make a move against guns the NRA membership swells.

[/B]

And according to some of the pages that Dune linked us to, a majority of the time when the NRA endorses a Senate candidate, he or she loses.  In any event, it appears that NRA membership does not correlate highly with vote choice.  If anything, I'd say party and ideology play a much larger role in determining both vote choice and NRA membership.

-- Todd/Leviathn