Author Topic: Democrats stoop to new low  (Read 2167 times)

Offline Pongo

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Democrats stoop to new low
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2003, 01:05:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by funkedup
What bull****.  Canadians are even funnier.

show me were I said different. We are better at laughing at our selves though.

Offline rpm

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« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2003, 01:07:43 AM »
If it was a bad Democratic Bill, I'd be against it ,too. Bad laws are bad laws, no matter who writes them. This one happens to be Republican Sponsored.
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Offline Fuzzy

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« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2003, 03:32:39 AM »
RPM apparently you have absolutely NO clue about medical malpractice insurance and the current practice climate in many states, including my own. As a medical professional, I am and you would be amazed (maybe not) at how many lawsuits are filed for even the most asinine of reasons. These lawsuits require the doctor/insurance to spend time and money towards these as well as legitimate cases. Even a case that is dismissed will usually cost over $50k. Most lawsuits don't even take place for years, hoping the doctors/insurance will just settle for a high dollar amount as opposed to paying escalating fees while the plaintiff builds their case leisurely. All this in turn creates higher malpractice insurance rates for doctors, here they were raised 40 to 100% depending on specialty. Many were forced to abandon their practices to find work in a friendlier setting. Many OB/GYN doctors in my area are limited to <100 deliveries a year or face HUGE increases in MPI. The Trauma Center I work at shut down last year for a couple of weeks because the Trauma Surgeons and Ortho Surgeons walked out in protest. Ours is one of the busiest trauma centers in the US. Care to guess what happened when it was closed? Think about the quality of care you will receive from the medical professionals who are left when most have moved due to these high rates. While I agree those in my profession should be held accountable for their errors, most errors are created due to problems in the process. Sure he cut off the wrong leg, but how many errors had to happen leading up to that? The heart transplant on that unfortunate girl at Duke was a grave error, but many factors contributed to it. Would she have lived without the heroic efforts, no. Would she have rejected a proper organ anyways, probably. At least she was given a chance. Should the doctor be held liable for this tragedy? What about all the others involved. I'm rambling and it's late. What I'm trying to say is LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE and don't focus on money alone.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2003, 03:35:01 AM by Fuzzy »

Offline Nash

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Democrats stoop to new low
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2003, 03:39:07 AM »
You're a medical professional, Fuzzy? Can I ask you a question? What is it with you people and (such as prescriptions) making things so damn difficult to read?!! :D  Paragraph breaks!

Offline rpm

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« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2003, 04:55:34 AM »
Fuzzy, I know all too well about Medical Malpractice. My daughter was unfortunate enough to be treated by a quack and had PERMANENT injuries as a result. It was a long ugly battle and we did not win due to a technicality.
 
 Texas has a major problem with malpractice, partially due to the size of the state. A major factor is the State Medical Board. A Dallas TV Station recently did an expose on the number of doctors practicing with questionable backgrounds and history of malpractice cases. If you let them return to work, is it not logical they will continue to make serious mistakes? Those Doctors are driving up the States rates. If you get several tickets, does that not drive up your car insurance? Good Doctors equal lower rates, but I conceed there are those frivalous lawsuits that will occur. A court will throw those out in most instances.

 What needs reform is Malpractice Insurance. There is no way you can tell me the Insurance Companies are not making HUGE profits. They are the MAIN problem with healthcare in the US today. I agree it is wrong for Trauma Centers to be forced to close. But there is no way that ALL Trauma Centers will close in an area.

 For Instance, In Tarrant County, Tx a major hospital announced it would stop delivering babies. Result? 3 other hospitals in the county  increased their newborns. Where there is a demand there will be Doctors that will treat patients.

 My own personal physician will treat me at a lower cost if I pay cash rather that filing an insurance claim. Less paperwork for his office to handle. Insurance Companies are the problem, reforming tort is not the answer.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2003, 05:07:53 AM by rpm »
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Offline Suave

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« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2003, 06:40:26 AM »
Lawsuit abuse in texas is incredible, I haven't seen anything like it in any other state . I've never been anywhere else that had so many amublance chasing lawyer commercials .

Criminal behavior to circumvent the democratic proccess and impose one's will. That's almost the definition of the T word, almost .

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2003, 07:00:40 AM »
rpm - whatever the reason

they - the handsomehunkcrats - need to stay and fight for those who voted them into office. you think them heroes for hiding?

while ur at it-yes, I think the malpractice needs limits. lawyers have made it so dang expensive for docs to get coverage it is ridiculous. we all pay high med costs so their arse is covered when what - 1 in 1000, 1 in 10,000, 1 in 100,000, 1 in 1,000,000 -whatever the numbers are,  medical mistakes happen?

when/if the dem gov runs the med show, you don't think these same dems will be screamin for the same limits to protect "their" docs?
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Offline ra

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« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2003, 08:00:20 AM »
Quote
Lawsuit abuse in texas is incredible, I haven't seen anything like it in any other state .

Offhand I know that West Virginia and Pennsylvania have the same problem.  Doctors are leaving those states in droves because of the cost of malpractice insurance.  

ra

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2003, 08:19:26 AM »
Man... I am liking Texas more and more... decent gun laws, decent automobile laws and now... they want to limit new taxes and have spending cuts?   sounds great... limit lawsuits?   yeah... some state has to start it.   We will have to do it eventually... I can't see how all medical bills paid for life and 250 grand is not fair.

might retire to Texas... is corpus cristi nice?
lazs

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2003, 09:08:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm371
Fuzzy, I know all too well about Medical Malpractice. My daughter was unfortunate enough to be treated by a quack and had PERMANENT injuries as a result. It was a long ugly battle and we did not win due to a technicality.
 
 Texas has a major problem with malpractice, partially due to the size of the state. A major factor is the State Medical Board. A Dallas TV Station recently did an expose on the number of doctors practicing with questionable backgrounds and history of malpractice cases. If you let them return to work, is it not logical they will continue to make serious mistakes? Those Doctors are driving up the States rates. If you get several tickets, does that not drive up your car insurance? Good Doctors equal lower rates, but I conceed there are those frivalous lawsuits that will occur. A court will throw those out in most instances.

 What needs reform is Malpractice Insurance. There is no way you can tell me the Insurance Companies are not making HUGE profits. They are the MAIN problem with healthcare in the US today. I agree it is wrong for Trauma Centers to be forced to close. But there is no way that ALL Trauma Centers will close in an area.

 For Instance, In Tarrant County, Tx a major hospital announced it would stop delivering babies. Result? 3 other hospitals in the county  increased their newborns. Where there is a demand there will be Doctors that will treat patients.

 My own personal physician will treat me at a lower cost if I pay cash rather that filing an insurance claim. Less paperwork for his office to handle. Insurance Companies are the problem, reforming tort is not the answer.


What makes him a quack?  Because he made a mistake.  Everyone makes mistakes, only people get hurt when doctors do.  That doesn't make them "quacks", it makes them human.

Malpractice rates aren't only because of insurance companies.  They are a business.  They can't just keep a set rate.  They must make a profit.  If morons sue for rediculous reasons and for rediculous amounts.  Boohoo.  Your daughter has a permanant scar on her little toe.  That hardly entitles you to 100 mil.  Even if the doctor had made a mistake.

Regardless, what the legislators did was wrong and illegal.  If you can't play be the rules set by the people of this country, then don't be in the house.  I hope they lock them up.

Offline Suave

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« Reply #40 on: May 13, 2003, 09:35:49 AM »
The more I think about this the more I realize how funny/stupid it is .

"This sucks, what should we do?"
"RUN AWAY!! HIDE!!"
"IF WE DON'T DEBATE, WE CAN NEVER BE WRONG"
"THEY CAN'T GET US IN OKLAHOMA"
"GOOD IDEA!!

Idiots, this is something right out of a Monty Python sketch.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2003, 09:44:06 AM by Suave »

Offline Suave

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« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2003, 09:42:49 AM »
Here is irony, these people, the ones who ran away and are hiding out, are paid soley for their judicious reasoning skills .

Yet these same people are in favor of very stiff penalties and consequences for incompetence in the work place.

I would encourage anybody who elected these fools to sue them for malpractice .

Offline Fatty

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« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2003, 10:01:13 AM »
RPM, that is hardly an ultra-right proposition, though the commercials and lobby would have you believe it so.

Hell I believe even California has award limits.

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2003, 10:30:15 AM »
Fatty is right
California does have limits.

It has been awhile, but my mom was looking to sue, she had three back surgeries, do to a ruptured disk, when her insurance changed she had to get a new doc, and it turns out the first doc ****ed up and fused the vertebrae wrong in two out of the three cases.

My mom can barely walk, and is now, on her 12th surgery, she takes morphine every day as part of her normal prescriptions!

we tried to get a lawyer, and every ****ing one of the godamn dirty bastards told us to go away, it was not worth their time cause gee guess what, you can only get like 200k in cali for punitive damages! NOT ONE LAWYER WOULD talk to her.

We even had the word of the new surgeon, that he would testify!! I think it is pretty rare for one surgeon to testify against another, but he was shocked at how bad a job this other doc had done...


so where does this leave my mom? On permanent disability, using a wheel chair most of the time and in pain 100% of her day.

What do I think of that law? Part of me says it is a good thing, that most doctors need protection from *******s trying to get over on the system...

It did make me despise lawyers though, 200k would have been enough for my for my mom to live on if invested well.... but not worth the time.........

Yes I am bitter about this..

I bet it was not the republicans in California who got the law in place here.


Oh and for you jerkoffs who say we wouldn't complain if the Republicans did this? You are wrong, they are pulling a BS stunt and wrong is wrong, don't push your low standards on me!

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2003, 11:19:43 AM »
Suave,

The term you want is malfeasance in office, not malpractice. I understand what you were saying.

GTO,

Sorry about your Mom. I think you should contact the state bar assn. for your state. The attorney is supposed to represent their clients interest, not their own pocket book. Your case demostrates one of the things wrong with our legal system in that lawyers are a major part of the problem, not the solution.

I'll never foget one of the lectures I had when I was in college in with a Law Enf. major. The lecturer, a lawyer, said that the purpose of a trial is NOT to find truth or demonstrate the truth. He said the "truth" would find its way into the trial rather than being brought in by one side or the other. He also said lawyers had NO responsibility to defend truth in trial. :mad:  As a rather naive youngster that got me rather riled up at the system. I thought he was a damned liar just hosing Law Enf. students out of spite in his, for those students, a mandatory class. Later, after being in several trials and watching both defence and prosecutors at work I realised he was right. A sad situation indeed.

I am a staunch supporter of tort reform. Yep I have been sued and sued others as well including the situation that gave me my disability. Do I think I deserved more money, sure but it wouldn't have been necessarily fair. I have seen companies fail in the aviation industry out of FEAR or suits. I have seen a Euro company REFUSE to sell to the US because of the impact of a POSSIBLE suit on them. Until we get a reasonable and rational (huh, what is that anyhow???? :confused: ) solution costs for just about EVERYTHING is going up due to legal costs and insurance fees.

Yep the insurance industry is there to make a profit. If there was no profit they wouldn't be in the business. They have stockholders to account to and they WANT a return on their investment, They are not charities.

A result of insurance interests is very prevalent in the aviation industry right now. Most insurers have dropped out of writing avuation insurance. There are less than 10 now in the industry. Competition is almost nonexistant and it is getting prohibitavely expensive to insure a small plane. Insurance is going to be a MAJOR cause of the collapse of aviation if this does not change. When you cannot insure a plane, the value of the plane drops dramatically as no one will want to buy it. I found this year, only 2 companies would offer a policy on my plane and I have NEVER had a claim in aviation in 20 years.

When FBO's and others in the industry got hit with premiums that doubled at best and went up in multiples of 100 at worst they shut down. New pilots are not being trained. Older pilots have a hard time getting recurrent training or advanced licenses. No training planes means less business for manufacturers whrich means less planes all around and fewer jobs and it all spirals down.

Think about it, tort reform is NOT about keeping rich folks rich. It's about keeping choices open and costs down for everyone including the poor. Remember people are not FORCED to become health care providers. They can go elsewhere to make a living. The same exists for teachers and others in all public service organizations.
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