whe do you hate Head On shots?

[bfreek]

?

[Mathman]

You are bound to get all sorts of answers referring to lack of skill and imagination, that it isn't sporting, that it is lame, etc.  Most people only hate the HO for one reason and one reason only:  they get shot down.  Some people can't accept the fact that they actually got shot down in a game.

[LLv34_Camouflage]

Here's a quote from Hasse Wind's fighter tactics lectures. Wind was the second highest scoring european non-German ace with his 75 confirmed victories. You can find his lectures here: http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/WW2History-CaptainWindsAirCombatTacticsLecture.html

It is not wise to try a head-on attack, because the hitting possibilities are the same for you and the enemy.

Camo

[oboe]

I am just reading Osprey Book's "P-40 Aces of the MTO" and early on it describes how the pilots were trained to do head on passes, since the P-40 wasn't going to win any manuevering contests with the Me109s they were facing.   But, they were tough and had good firepower.

Interesting, huh?

[Kweassa]

Maybe that's the reason no P-40 pilot ever got 75 kills?

 

 ...

 Seriously though, I think most complaints about HOs come from people confusing front quarter shots and 'true' HO shots.

 If the enemy plane managed to shoot you in your face/cockpit area, when you haven't brought your own guns on him yet, simply, he out-maneuvered you. It could be due to luck, or careful judgement by the enemy pilot - nevertheless, the result is he out maneuvered you. There can't be any complaints.

 If it was a true HO shot, where both opponents have their guns aiming towards each other's face - then this situation is almost always avoidable. Nobody forced anyone into an unwilling HO - No complaints in this case, either.

[gofaster]

...and then I learned about victory through superior firepower.

When I'm in a FW190A8 or a 109G10 with my Juggernaut Package, I embrace the HO if the other guy is dumb enough to pull into an HO on me (I sure ain't gonna be able to turn away in an overweight, overgunned Luftwaffe plane).  When I'm in a Yak9U or 109F, I'll avoid the HO, but in the G10 or A8, I'll embrace the HO attack like a warm, fuzzy blanket on cold, wintry night.

Spitfire IXs, LA7s, and Mustangs seem to try the HO shot a lot more against me than other plane types, but I blame that on the other pilot's lack of experience or overaggressiveness.

[Furball]

Only time i actually go for the HO is when i see the plane shooting at me from 3k out and i know its a newb.

Or when im upping at a capped field, the way i see it is it only takes me 10 seconds to up again if we both die.  They have to fly all the way back to base.

[LLv34_Camouflage]

Originally posted by oboe


I am just reading Osprey Book's "P-40 Aces of the MTO" and early on it describes how the pilots were trained to do head on passes, since the P-40 wasn't going to win any manuevering contests with the Me109s they were facing.   But, they were tough and had good firepower.

Interesting, huh?

Wow, very interesting.  Finnish Air Force faced a similar situation. The Brewsters were less maneuverable and climbed worse than the I16s and I153s they faced. They were marginally faster though.  Wind's lectures were especially intended for Brewster pilots. "How to wage war in the BW"...

The FAF solution for "not going to win any maneuvering contests" was classic BnZ tactics. Attack from above and use the element of surprise. TnB was a big no-no, and head on shots were to be avoided.  

Interesting differences in philosophy between the different air forces!!

Camo

[bigUC]

As a defensive tactic i find nothing wrong with it.  When you are in a poor turning AC with a higher and/or faster enemy, it's the only move that's  gonna alter the situation in your favor.  If the other aircraft commits to the HO he makes a bad judgement.  A good shot can also HO for obvious reasons.  If you seem to lose these engagements you should avoid them. If you still HO you have only yourself to blame.  I love HO's btw and rarely "loose", mostly because i also love the A8

[rshubert]

I use  the HO (or threat of one) to fight back against the higher/faster fighter when I'm heavy, or slow, or low, or all three.  

I think guys that complain about the tactic are simply frustrated that I won't turn away, and take it up the tail so they can feel like "real fighter pilots".    There are ways to avoid the HO, and both pilots have to "agree" before an HO can take place.

A few weeks ago I got into a situation while flying a low, slow, light A20 where I was being attacked by two 109s.  I shot both down by flying for a head on with them.  It worked.  Not my usual performance, of course--I get shot down a lot.

[Saurdaukar]

Most people dont like face shooting situations because they are dependent more on twitching movements and luck than any perceieved "skill."

Why would anyone want to fly 20 minutes only be shot in the face without even twisting the stick?

They are easy enough to avoid, and from that point forward you  can probably assume your opponent is SOL because he needs to actually gain position on you.

From a mathmatical standpoint, if Im going to engage a con, I dont want the chances to be 50/50 for which one of us goes down (especially within seconds) - I'd much rather the odds be 100/0 in my favor - and if his guns are pointing at me, that isnt the case.

[DVDA]

I fine with someone coming head on and shooting me down. No problem with that.....the thing that gets me is when someone comes Head on and crashes into me, ripping a wing off and not getting himself killed

[Furball]

Originally posted by bigUC
As a defensive tactic i find nothing wrong with it.  When you are in a poor turning AC with a higher and/or faster enemy, it's the only move that's  gonna alter the situation in your favor.  If the other aircraft commits to the HO he makes a bad judgement.  A good shot can also HO for obvious reasons.  If you seem to lose these engagements you should avoid them. If you still HO you have only yourself to blame.  I love HO's btw and rarely "loose", mostly because i also love the A8

thats fair enough if you are in a bad turning plane and with heavier armament, its the fault of the attacker getting in a HO in those situations

[funkedup]

teh hedon shotz are teh 5uxx04.

[Karnak]

If I am in an aircraft that has a marked performance advantage (manuverability in a Spitfire or A6M, or speed, climb and acceleration in a Bf109G-10 or Fw190D-9) I'll avoid the HO and manuver for the kill.  If I'm in a Mosquito or an IL-2 without an E advantage, I'll go for the HO every time.

That said, the whines I see are most often from people who mistake a front quarter shot for an HO.  People who never had a firing solution on you, or were actively avoiding obtaining one in the hope that doing so would deny you a firing solution.

Another big group are those who attack inferior air-to-air aircraft (Mosquito, Bf110G-2, IL-2) and expect you to hand them a free kill.  They then get upset when you use the tools at your disposal to give yourself the best shot at survival and pull it off.