Author Topic: So, which part of the Iraq war was bad again?  (Read 2370 times)

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
So, which part of the Iraq war was bad again?
« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2003, 04:37:29 PM »
We are stealing their oli!!!  We are stealing their oil!!!

Look 10Bears the only reason anyone gives a flying fck about the arabs in general is because of their oil but thats a far far cry from the childishly idiotic opinion of yours and other that this was a war to steal Iraqs oil.

First of all we cant steal it, were gonna have to pay for it - if you dont know why we will then thats your problem.

Second were gonna have to pay the market price for the stuff anyway or damn close - againthats just haow thats gonna work.

So with those realities in mind why did we not just drop sanctions in the 1990s and let Saddam sell us the oil. Or let me put it into general terms you undersatand and use with Bush.



"Why did that evil child molestor draft dodger drug user buthcher Bill Clinton continue keeping up the sancions and murderging tens of thousands of Iraqi children every month just so that oil supply was low amd prices were high so he could push his left wing environmental agenda and reduce use of oil."



Maybe just maybe, Bill Clinton like GWB thought Saddam was a threat and that Saddam had not demonstrated his willingness to no loner be a thread and thus did not deserve the lifting of sanctions? Nah thats just too simple and paints good ole harmless uncle Saddam in a bad light... No the USA mush be wrong, Saddam is no threat!

So maybe you should stop applying bizzare alterior motives to American actions wrt Saddam and just see the blindingly obvious thing - he was a threat. Bill Clinton thought so, as did the the first Bush and as did GWB.  You know sometimes, imagine just sometimes america isnt the evil bad big nazi country you wanna think it is - nah thats too big of a step for a "world citizen" like yourself..

You see we could have accomplished our oil stealing objectives simply by dropping the sanctions, and belive me the Russainas and French would have supported us on that 100%, and letting saddam sell us the oil at market prices - and yes he would have sold the US that oil as he has really very little control who gets it belive it or not on the open market and of course the USA is biggest oil user in world.

But we did not because three succesive US administyrations thought that Saddam was a great enough threat....

So basically this "stealing oil" or now "plundering oil" argument is childish nonsense - you would do yourself and your pro-Saddam cause a great service if you would stop using it.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2003, 04:44:32 PM by GRUNHERZ »

Offline 10Bears

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1509
So, which part of the Iraq war was bad again?
« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2003, 12:58:07 PM »
My apologies for not hitting the thread earlier,  tons of work coming my way lately.

Quote
Look 10Bears the only reason anyone gives a flying fck about the arabs in general is because of their oil but thats a far far cry from the childishly idiotic opinion of yours and other that this was a war to steal Iraqs oil.


Yes Gurn, it must be my childish idealism to think one should not steal a gas can from the neighbor’s garage. If you need gas, you ask the neighbor if you can buy some. What’s that crack about not giving a flying fck about arabs?.. sounds racist to me. Since we don’t give a flying fck, it’s ok to nab their oil.

Quote
Second were gonna have to pay the market price for the stuff anyway or damn close - again thats just haow thats gonna work.


True enough.. we as regular people will pay the market price, but the President’s main contributors will receive a  massive windfall in profits. In short, they have taken control of the oil... exactly what I’ve been saying.

Quote
So with those realities in mind why did we not just drop sanctions in the 1990s and let Saddam sell us the oil. Or let me put it into general terms you undersatand and use with Bush.


I wonder that myself. Dick Chaney wanted sanctions in dropped in 1999.. I agree with that and would go one further, drop sanctions on all these folks. Cuba, N. Korea the works.. Why?.. I believe rather than punish countries like small children, you treat them like adults and offer partnerships on a variety of issues. This would lessen the likelihood of terrorist or military attack. Secondly, it  financially benefits all the people evolved and helps floats everybody's boat.    

This is an older article from last year..
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/archive/30-12-19102-1-15-53.html

Quote
THE US said yesterday that it plans to secure Iraqi oilfields if it invades the country and it is looking at the possibility of using oil production to pay for post-war reconstruction.
(snip)
International oil companies such as Exxon Mobil, BP, and Shell would want to take part in any rehabilitation of the country's oil industry, analysts said.
(snip)


and this from May 23rd..

http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid

Quote

Iraq's oil minister announced yesterday that three oil production contracts signed by the previous regime with Russian and Chinese companies would be either terminated or frozen, according to Reuters news agency.
(snip)
Phillip J. Carroll, the former Shell executive chosen by the Pentagon to advise the oil ministry, said there was some doubt whether existing foreign contracts "gave the Iraqi people the full benefit of their oil wealth".

Offline Martlet

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4390
So, which part of the Iraq war was bad again?
« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2003, 01:06:13 PM »
I'm still looking for instances where we've stolen oil.  I've heard lots of crying about it, but I have yet to see it.

Offline straffo

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10029
So, which part of the Iraq war was bad again?
« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2003, 01:34:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
We are stealing their oli!!!  We are stealing their oil!!!


Currently it's  more

We have stealed their soli(*)!!!  We have stealed their soil!!!

:D



(*) I'm too lazy to correct your typo ;)

Offline Habu

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1905
So, which part of the Iraq war was bad again?
« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2003, 05:22:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 10Bears
I wonder that myself. Dick Chaney wanted sanctions in dropped in 1999.. I agree with that and would go one further, drop sanctions on all these folks. Cuba, N. Korea the works.. Why?.. I believe rather than punish countries like small children, you treat them like adults and offer partnerships on a variety of issues. This would lessen the likelihood of terrorist or military attack. Secondly, it  financially benefits all the people evolved and helps floats everybody's boat.    

[/url]


I guess someone forgot to tell that to the Roman Empire, the Mongals, or lets pick someone more modern, how about Japan in 1940?

You have all the right answers to solve the worlds problems. I vote for you for President!!!:D :D

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
So, which part of the Iraq war was bad again?
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2003, 01:05:21 AM »
So using oil proceeeds to rebulid IRAQI society is staeling oil. I guess you would also consider the proposed Iraqi oil proceeds sharing program, like we have in alaska, also stealing oil?

Cmon 10Bears show me the oil, show me the stolen oil...  

As for treating countries like "adults" and offereing them "partnerships", does this mean you were all for the USA supporting Saddam in the 1980s?  

Let me tell you something you naive child, some counbtries do not share the same intersests as the USA and would not respond to some naive "parthership"...

Grow up 10Bears.... Damn... :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: May 27, 2003, 01:08:19 AM by GRUNHERZ »

Offline crowMAW

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1179
So, which part of the Iraq war was bad again?
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2003, 09:10:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lizard3
Actually, that money isn't going up in smoke. Isn't 90% of it going to US companies or to soldiers pay? I'm not saying it will cause a economic boom, but is it really hurting the economy much? Purely analitical thinking, non-emotional.

Yes, it does hurt the economy...here is how:

To man this war it was necessary to call up reserves.  This pulls privately employed individuals from gainful employment pumping goods and services into the US economy and places them in a position performing a function (ridding the world of Saddam) that does not add to the US GDP.  Further, many companies will supplement the pay of an employee called to active duty if his/her duty pay is lower than their regular salary...those dollars increase the cost of production for the employer.  Even if the company does not supplement salaries, they must bear the expense of temporarily replacing the soldier (which may include hiring costs, training costs, and probably an unemployment insurance assessment when the temp is released after the soldier returns to work).

Also, while deployed, these soldiers will spend a portion of their pay in a foreign country...whether it is at the camp PX or at a Baghdad market, those are dollars that are not going into a local US economy (I emphasize "local" because the items purchased at the PX do not support local retailers).  Further, if the soldier is single and has no household to maintain in the states, it is likely he/she is saving quite a bit...interest rates are already at all time lows indicating that there is too much money in savings and not enough being spent or invested in the private sector, so their added savings are not helping spur the economy.

As for the US companies getting the contracts for re-building Iraq...it is unlikely that they will exclusively use US employees, i.e. they are not going to ship in a thousand construction workers to rebuild the bridges.  Instead, it is more likely that they will use local labor.  So again, the majority of that money goes into the Iraqi economy rather than ours.

When the economy is weak, increased government spending can help so long as it is for the right thing.  If spent on infrastructure or some other means of reducing transaction costs, then the expenditure will provide long term benefits to the economy by reducing the cost of doing business and simultaneously increasing employment.  But pumping temporary dollars into the economy will not cause a recovery from recession...it is like eating candy when you are hungry, it will only produce a temporary sugar high but not end your hunger.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2003, 09:15:33 AM by crowMAW »

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
So, which part of the Iraq war was bad again?
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2003, 01:25:25 PM »
Yes avoiding neccessaary military confrontations for the sake of domestic economic concerns has always been a decision..

Peace in our Times!!!!  :rolleyes:

Offline P. Wolfowitz

  • Parolee
  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10
So, which part of the Iraq war was bad again?
« Reply #53 on: June 01, 2003, 05:21:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mjolnir
Blitz?  Is that you?



Sure! That wmd thing was a propaganda thingie to keep people in line.  Iraq was never a threat to the USA.
Joseph Goebels would be proud of that one, classic.....


Regards P. Wolfowiz aka Blitz


Iraq was in no way threatening the USA, it was just plain ridiculous, everyone know that by now.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2003, 05:25:45 PM by P. Wolfowitz »

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
So, which part of the Iraq war was bad again?
« Reply #54 on: June 01, 2003, 05:40:47 PM »
Ok thats enough blitz!

I think you personally singling out and vilifiying wolfowitz in this way is pretty good proof that you are anti-semitic and a general jew hater - this would be consitent with your support of the islamic radical terrorists, support for saddm and opposition to whatever the USA is trying to do to stop these people anmd protect our allies and interests.

Its sad to see that this kind of garbage lives on in germany to this day...

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
So, which part of the Iraq war was bad again?
« Reply #55 on: June 01, 2003, 09:06:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Grun is trying the anti semite lure again. Let's see if the fish bites.

Shouldn't that be "All Heil PNAC!" Grun?


Is it anti-Semitic to say that Israel is not worth WWIII?
sand

Offline Holden McGroin

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8591
So, which part of the Iraq war was bad again?
« Reply #56 on: June 01, 2003, 09:24:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Is it anti-Semitic to say that Israel is not worth WWIII?


No, because Palestinians are semitic too.

Semite: A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
So, which part of the Iraq war was bad again?
« Reply #57 on: June 01, 2003, 09:27:03 PM »
Got it... thanks Holden.


Still I always chuckle that the media portrays anti-semitism as if it were a special form of racism. :)
sand

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
So, which part of the Iraq war was bad again?
« Reply #58 on: June 02, 2003, 01:18:19 AM »
Yea anti-semitism isnt any special class of racism unlike how popular culture tries to define it - in fact its one of my personal annoyances when people try to make it seem like that.

Nonetheless it's a commonly used expression and it's taken to mean hatred of jews and so even i use it from time to time.

Anyway it seems to me that blitz fits that pretty god with his unceasing support of terrorists and saddam hussein and opoposition of any effort to deal with them. And now he starts focusing on Paul wolfowitz, who everyone knows is Jewish and then I gotta wonder - certainly it seems to fit and many of his anti USA staements are similar to those of consiracy nuts who balme jews for everything.

"Is it anti-Semitic to say that Israel is not worth WWIII?"

No, of course Israel isnt worth WW3 but Poland with her worthless dirty population of untermensch wasnt really worth WW2 either, yet France and Britain came to her aid anyway... Right, the dirty Poles werent worth fighting for no, no way, never! :rolleyes:

Offline aztec

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1800
So, which part of the Iraq war was bad again?
« Reply #59 on: June 02, 2003, 05:52:08 AM »
The part of the Iraq war that was bad was all the loudmouth, know it all, blowhards who came here every day to give their views on it.