in the new "missun arena"...

[lazs2]

How many of the "missuns" will be a half dozen tiffies suiciding into the fuel at an enemy base?  How many will consist of a lone heavy 38 suicideing into buildings over and over at the enemy base?  How many will be sneak missuns or steamroller missuns?

How many will be set up so that one group meets another comparable sized group and.... gasp... fights?
lazs

[Yeager]

Tell you the truth laz1, I think you furballers and those steamrolling suiciding tiffy dorks are all just a bunch of dweebs.

[Batz]

In AH2:ToD (missun arena) missions are genrated by the host. Suicide pilots will happen because thats just what some people like but if they suicide alot they loose their rank and have to back through training. There will be a death penalty. It wont be an open arena you will have to join missions that will be generated every 30 min (last number i read).

Bombers will be suplemented by ai. So you could have 50 bombers (humans can fly bombers as well but they will be part of the larger formation).

So a set of missions could be

offensive

1. Bomb xxx
2. escort bombers to xxx
3. Sweep xxx ahead of bombers

Defensive

2. defend xxx
3. top cover for defenders of xxx

for the bombers to complete their mission they must destroy xx % of target and rtb

for escorts to complete their mission xx% of the bombers must survive and they must rtb

for the sweep to be completed these fighters must engage the enemy over the target and shoot x % down and then rtb.

the defense fighters must either shoot down xxx number of bombers and/or ensure the target doesnt recieve more then xx damage and then rtb

the top cover must cant let more then xxx of the defense fighter be killed and rtb

HT will tweak the numbers for mission success vrs mission failure vrs lost aircraft or death so that thers a real penalty for death but to ensure that folks dont fly real timid.

Imagine if the escort fighters spot 50 enemy planes and turn and leave the bombers because they are to afraid to risk death to help out. For this reason mission failure needs to be penalized as well.

10 point for mission sucess
-5 for failure
-10 for lost aircraft
-50 for death

would be good.

How do you make sure each mission has one opposing it and in term has people actually flying it I dont know.

Base capture wont be a part of AH2:ToD. Without base capture I doudt we will see pork and auger but there will always be those few who will try it.

I dont think it will have much appeal for the instant action junkies like yourself. I dont see you on a 45 min bomber escort mission flying peeeeeeeeeee51s at 30k for then 5 -10 min of "fighting' just to rtb so you can make general. Maybe I am stereotyping but General Lazs just dont seem right.

But AH2:classic will just like the main now with the new terrain and art.

Fuel porking can be over come in the main if the map makers add so 15 fuel bunkers spread out accross a field so you cant kill mosre then 1 at a time. This way they would need 200 typhies to kill 15 bunkers.

[T0J0]

Must be nice out in Cali today Lazs is out fishun...
And the hook has been baited...

[lazs2]

so... you don't think any of the "missuns" will be set up for suicide building battling or steamrolling undefended or lightly defended fields?
lazs

[Batz]

I dont know. Undefended and lightly dfended most likely will be determined by how many folks join the counter mission. HT also mentioned mission that have no counters. So its certainly possible.

Airfield porking wont be a problem because missions will be genarted by the host and should make the start field one that ha sthe resources to support it. But its not an open arena anyway. You couldnt just come in pick a field and fly.

[lazs2]

so you think that some of the 'missuns' that people wait a half hour for will be steamroller the undefended field and kill the buildings and ai?
lazs

[muckmaw]

Are you going to fly the Mission Arena, Lazs?

[Batz]

yup some missions will be against buildings and other inanimate objects. There was talk about ai gvs. So I can imagine a ground attck mission in support of gvs. Whether that means against enemy gvs or leveling ack and buildings so gvs can roll in. I know there will be no base capture like in the main. I dont know if there will be a dynamic front that moves in relation to mission types.

But there will be missions where you see no enemy or that your objective is something other then a2a combat.

The waiting 30 min (or however long ht decides between missions) maybe necessary to get the mission organized and every one informed as to what they are suppose to do.

You will have much longer flight times then wait times between missions.

You could spend near an hour doing nothing but waiting to take off and flying to target only to discover that no enemy joined the counter mission. Or find out your outnumbered 4 to 1.

Or the next mission available could be go jabo xx bridge with no enmy mission to counter.

[Toad]

Laz, there will be no deliberate suiciding.

Man, what are you thinking? There's RANK to consider!

Suicide into a building and you may not make 1st Lieutenant or something!

And how else to show your true RL superiority and excellence except by illustrious rank conferred on you by a computer game?

Herr Generalfeldmarschall Laz! Brought down to Gefreiter Laz by a suicide attack? I seriously doubt that!

Like the CT, the Mission Arena will be a wonderful thing for AH. Everyone benefits.

Rejoice, amigo!

[Batz]

Rank isnt the end it a means to ensure a type of behavior. Not because you make "general" but because if you remain at the bottom the potential for you to end up back in training is closer then someone who is ranked as a "general".

You cant just ride the bottom. If you die you loose points. If you loose points you loose rank. If you loose rank you end up back in training. In effect you wont be flying very much if you cant advance. Rank or whatever you wanna call it creates a buffer between you and training. Mission will also will be organized and lead. After a mission each pilot will be evaluated by the other members of the mission. These evals along with general score will determin who leads missions.

The CT gets 10% of the main and for those who fly ther its a complete sucess. When AH started you had similiar numbers in the main. It was still fun. It still draws more then wb3.

Ah2:ToD would not need large numbers in the arena but just a few well balanced missions. 12 escort vrs 12 enemy trying to kill 50 bombers will be equal to the action in the ah main now. But without the running or the bombers nosing over to divebomb a vh. HT will need to balnce the numbers between a death penalty mission failure and mission success so that people fight rather then just fly around real timid.

Your recent posts about strat demonstrate how bad the main is now. Folks had brought the very issues you bring up about strat well over a year ago. I believe your reply was "you all are whiners and what do you expect for 50 cents a day".

The lack of "fighting" in the ah main has made it boring. Anything that may encourages fighting will be good. In Ah2:ToD. we may have long flight times but theres the encentive to fight. If a tool like rank or points or whatever helps the fight then who cares.

If there only 50 guys in the arena and split between an attack mission and a defense mission its still more fighting then what I have found recently in the main. Even with longer flight times and everything else. I know you dont fly FB but 32 man coops with an ai element is far more fun (if you like the particular planeset set the watching 20 suicide jabos fly into the ground to kill 3 buildings.

AH2:ToD wont have the instant action that ah of a year and a half ago had (or whenever it was right before the numbers exploded and those suicide typh raids became regular). Which is one thing missing from all the current flight games.

Even with NB adding more fields to trinity this just adds more undefended fields to be milked. It wont mean more fights. 1 fighter can still kill the fuel at a field and it will still take 30 min or however for them to be rebuilt or resupplied.

As stupid as General XX sounds it willl need to be fought for. Thats more then a reset in the main.

[Toad]

Hey, to be honest I just skimmed your post. I have no problem with or much interest in the details of the new gameplay. I'll let them set it up, give it a try and see what I think from there.

Just wanted to clear up a conceptual thing or two.

I have no problem with folks that want to fly the CT or the Mission Arena for whatever reason.  I think folks paying for a service should get what makes them happy commensurate with the ability of the providing company to reasonably achieve that.

I am GLAD "CT guys" have the CT. They weren't happy in the MA and now they have something that makes them happier. They're happier, I'm happy that they're happier.

Same exact thoughts for the "Mission Arena". It will obviously provide some things that will make some players happier within AH. A good thing for all of us. They'll be happier and I'll be happy that they're happier.

I don't think we can realistically expect one big MA to provide all the elements that will make everyone "happy". That's why we got the CT and are getting the Mission Arena. It's a natural fractionating of the group because not every has the same gameplay goals.

So, more power to the CT and the Mission Arena. Bound to make more folks smile when they play.

[Wlfgng]

any word on the big WHEN ???

[Toad]

Oh, and can you enumerate my complaints about "strat"?

I think all I've said regarding "strat" per se is the effort to replenish fuel should be somewhat commensurate with the effort to degrade it. Otherwise, I don't care about "strat".

As to steamrollers.. yeah, they're there but you can fly away for them or on the edges. So, it's not that big a factor.

BTW, the CT isn't really any different in that respect. It's just on a smaller scale so it is more managable. IMO. You meet the same exact type players in the CT, just in smaller groups; at least that's been my experience. Well, maybe even more alt monkeys.  But if that's what they want to do, it's OK. I just try to do my thing and let others do their thing.

[Batz]

Ok, I  thought you were deriding the folks who prefer the ct or may even prefer the new mt.

To me your previous post read rather sacastic but what do I know.